• You're viewing the Team9000 Archives. These old threads are closed to new comments, but if something interests you or you have a question, feel free to open a new thread in the main forums.

Ranks: An editorial by Crane

Status
Not open for further replies.
Now, I've been thinking...


I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be an Awesome, you know that as well as I do. Humans want higher rank and they want more power, it’s in our blood. Whether it’s got to do with the rank of someone in the military or rank in social society to yes, ranks in a Minecraft Classic Server. And just don’t go on about saying it shouldn't be about the ranks, we’ve heard it all before and it’s pointless. If you have to repete yourself then something’s wrong with what you’re saying. If you want to do that why call them RANKS in the first place and to access that information is by using the command /ranks.

I'm not angry, although you could say my jimmies are rustled, mainly because of this point. Want to know why builders feel angry, frustrated or rustled in situations like these? Because they're builders who see guests turn to awesome’s. Now that might allow gloating rights of saying "I remember back in the day when you couldn't even place water without help" but the newly appointed awesome get the last laugh in the end.

Now, this is all stuff you've heard before. Yes, they're higher rank and yes, they’re builders complaining about not being ranked on a server that is free to play and all you do is place blocks to look like something but hear me out, listen to what I have to say. I've finally figured out why builders complain, because I'm feeling it right now. I forgot who but someone I was a builder with got Engineer and I felt kinda left out, allow me to go into more detail.

Think of it like this, here is Person1. He's a pretty nice guy and people like talking to him. He's a new guest and people are socializing with him he thinks.

"Oh boy, these people are so nice! I can't wait to hang out with them more!"

Then after some hard work he gets cool, he finally has a colour to the game, some form of recognition, he's talking to more and more people, hears about builder chat.

"Oh boy, I wanna be a builder, time to build to get noticed!"

Then guess what, he builds! Big things! Things people like. And after some very hard work he gets builder, then things slow down. The next rank as people have said, it hard to obtain so they kind of just stop and look back, have fun finally, chatting it up with fellow builders, looking back at the guests in front of him. Then, Person2 joins the game, seems to be enjoying himself, having a blast. So Person1 goes over to him, talks to him and is nice to him. Person2 has a blast, sends in a cool rank thread and leaves for the night, Person1 hopes the best for 'em. Then after some sweat and tears Person2 finally gets cool, he goes around giving other guests lava and water and starts talking to everyone, gets to know people.

Person1 then tells him about builder chat, Person2 now seems like he wants to get builder, by trying to build bigger and better things. Finally they get builder rank. It’s a cycle. Now, Person1 and Person2 are Bro's. Builders, building together, having a blast. Then. Person2 Becomes Engineer and Person1 congratulates them... then they get Awesome rank... and Person1 feels left alone.

Because that's what all that's about, loneness. Nobody wants to be alone. Person1 wants to chat with Person2 but since they're almost invisible to them he can't tell if he's on or not. Person2 is always hiding so he hasn't a clue. Because that's the point of all of that, Builders feel left out. Simple as that. Builders feel almost separated from the higher ranks, the fact that Engie+ can see if higher ranks are hiding does not help and I remember from one of one of the promotion reasons what “Welcome to the Team!”

What? Builders aren’t in the team? They aren’t part of the more important community?

So... why bother writing all of this? What's the point you ask? Because it might be something wrong with me… or it might be something wrong with the system, but let me just say this now...

I'M NOT ASKING FOR A NEW RANK

Simple as that, what I am asking is that Veteran Builders should become Engineers, People who have put massive amounts into the server and gotten to know loads of the people who’s also had the times of their life and shown some form of maturity.

Because through that we can then tell if they’re mature or not for a higher rank, so in most cases… Mature enough for the awesome rank. If you want builders to actually start building instead of them trying to be mini mods, constantly reporting grief and not building. You need the proving grounds to actually be engineer. So that will stop the older builders from complaining, to prove they can handle a higher rank.

Afraid some aren’t ready yet? Just see how they act. See how the think. If you think this builder has built enough for the server, allow them to be able to kick, it will be still… ultimately up to the red-names to see if they’re good enough like always. And if someone does make someone an engineer and they abuse that power or seem to be gloating with it. All they can do is kick, nothing ground shattering or server corrupting. Someone will complain and they’ll be demoted, simple as that.

I'll also like to add that people want to have fun, if people are getting angry in situations like there people aren't having fun. You can't just tell someone HAVE FUN. Because you can't force fun on people. Considering this IMO will bring the fun back for me, if other people suffer the same displeasure and I know they do. It will solve the problem of...

-Builders not building because they're trying to become engies
-Builders getting angry about ranks
-And bringing the fun back to classic for them.

So, that’s what I’ve been thinking, I’ve been articulating this post for a very long time now, it has been on my mind for quite some time now and it’s a relief that I finally got it down and that I finally posted it on the forums.

Wanna TL;DR? Here's one
No new rank, but have the proving grounds for higher ranks actually be engineer so veteran builders can prove themselves for a higher rank and thus, builders actually start building again without having to try and become mini mods and pester higher ranks into banning players for them and seem like they're trying to get a higher rank subtly.​
Posts like this were one the reasons that this thread was originally created. Things used to be like this... it was fairly easy to get ranks... if you knew the admins. I'll be the first to admit that I never deserved pro rank... but I got it anyways. I like to think it's because I'm a fairly well known member of the community. We were a younger server back then, and promotions worked a lot differently. I'm about to make a lame, probably blasphemous joke here, here goes:

I had a dream... that some day my fellow members of team9000 would be judged not by the color of their names in classic, but by the content of their forum posts.

When this post was written people would walk around like they were hot shit... just because of their rank in classic. Frankly, it doesn't matter. With great power comes great responsibility. (Another, much lamer reference there). If you're not having fun on minecraft because someone that was a guest after you now has a higher rank than you, walk the fuck away. Team9000 minecraft is not everything... there are other things to do around here.

If minecraft isn't fun for you anymore, don't sit around getting lava for guests and reporting grief until you're the next rank... it's not going to help. It's good for a short novelty at best. IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING FUN, FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO PLAY.
 
Posts like this were one the reasons that this thread was originally created. Things used to be like this... it was fairly easy to get ranks... if you knew the admins. I'll be the first to admit that I never deserved pro rank... but I got it anyways. I like to think it's because I'm a fairly well known member of the community. We were a younger server back then, and promotions worked a lot differently. I'm about to make a lame, probably blasphemous joke here, here goes:

I had a dream... that some day my fellow members of team9000 would be judged not by the color of their names in classic, but by the content of their forum posts.

When this post was written people would walk around like they were hot shit... just because of their rank in classic. Frankly, it doesn't matter. With great power comes great responsibility. (Another, much lamer reference there). If you're not having fun on minecraft because someone that was a guest after you now has a higher rank than you, walk the fuck away. Team9000 minecraft is not everything... there are other things to do around here.

If minecraft isn't fun for you anymore, don't sit around getting lava for guests and reporting grief until you're the next rank... it's not going to help. It's good for a short novelty at best. IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING FUN, FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO PLAY.
Maybe I find fun in that, your opinion of "fun" isn't mine.
 
Thats the problem though, when we ease that line back, it only helps the people close to it and moves it closer to a new group of people who will raise this exact issue in a few months time. The line has to be drawn somewhere or it gets pushed back until it disappears. Look at the builder rank, we kept pushing the line back until the builders are at the level they are at now. Now we have cool people still complaining about how difficult builder is (which it isn't) and older members complaining about how easy it is and how we need a new rank now. People will always be unhappy, its all about where we draw that line that makes them unhappy.
 
Thats the problem though, when we ease that line back, it only helps the people close to it and moves it closer to a new group of people who will raise this exact issue in a few months time. The line has to be drawn somewhere or it gets pushed back until it disappears. Look at the builder rank, we kept pushing the line back until the builders are at the level they are at now. Now we have cool people still complaining about how difficult builder is (which it isn't) and older members complaining about how easy it is and how we need a new rank now. Purple will always be unhappy, its all about where we draw that line that makes them unhappy.
Purple are some of the happiest people i met on Classic servers
 
Now, I've been thinking...


I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be an Awesome, you know that as well as I do. Humans want higher rank and they want more power, it’s in our blood. Whether it’s got to do with the rank of someone in the military or rank in social society to yes, ranks in a Minecraft Classic Server. And just don’t go on about saying it shouldn't be about the ranks, we’ve heard it all before and it’s pointless. If you have to repete yourself then something’s wrong with what you’re saying. If you want to do that why call them RANKS in the first place and to access that information is by using the command /ranks.

I'm not angry, although you could say my jimmies are rustled, mainly because of this point. Want to know why builders feel angry, frustrated or rustled in situations like these? Because they're builders who see guests turn to awesome’s. Now that might allow gloating rights of saying "I remember back in the day when you couldn't even place water without help" but the newly appointed awesome get the last laugh in the end.

Now, this is all stuff you've heard before. Yes, they're higher rank and yes, they’re builders complaining about not being ranked on a server that is free to play and all you do is place blocks to look like something but hear me out, listen to what I have to say. I've finally figured out why builders complain, because I'm feeling it right now. I forgot who but someone I was a builder with got Engineer and I felt kinda left out, allow me to go into more detail.

Think of it like this, here is Person1. He's a pretty nice guy and people like talking to him. He's a new guest and people are socializing with him he thinks.

"Oh boy, these people are so nice! I can't wait to hang out with them more!"

Then after some hard work he gets cool, he finally has a colour to the game, some form of recognition, he's talking to more and more people, hears about builder chat.

"Oh boy, I wanna be a builder, time to build to get noticed!"

Then guess what, he builds! Big things! Things people like. And after some very hard work he gets builder, then things slow down. The next rank as people have said, it hard to obtain so they kind of just stop and look back, have fun finally, chatting it up with fellow builders, looking back at the guests in front of him. Then, Person2 joins the game, seems to be enjoying himself, having a blast. So Person1 goes over to him, talks to him and is nice to him. Person2 has a blast, sends in a cool rank thread and leaves for the night, Person1 hopes the best for 'em. Then after some sweat and tears Person2 finally gets cool, he goes around giving other guests lava and water and starts talking to everyone, gets to know people.

Person1 then tells him about builder chat, Person2 now seems like he wants to get builder, by trying to build bigger and better things. Finally they get builder rank. It’s a cycle. Now, Person1 and Person2 are Bro's. Builders, building together, having a blast. Then. Person2 Becomes Engineer and Person1 congratulates them... then they get Awesome rank... and Person1 feels left alone.

Because that's what all that's about, loneness. Nobody wants to be alone. Person1 wants to chat with Person2 but since they're almost invisible to them he can't tell if he's on or not. Person2 is always hiding so he hasn't a clue. Because that's the point of all of that, Builders feel left out. Simple as that. Builders feel almost separated from the higher ranks, the fact that Engie+ can see if higher ranks are hiding does not help and I remember from one of one of the promotion reasons what “Welcome to the Team!”

What? Builders aren’t in the team? They aren’t part of the more important community?

So... why bother writing all of this? What's the point you ask? Because it might be something wrong with me… or it might be something wrong with the system, but let me just say this now...

I'M NOT ASKING FOR A NEW RANK

Simple as that, what I am asking is that Veteran Builders should become Engineers, People who have put massive amounts into the server and gotten to know loads of the people who’s also had the times of their life and shown some form of maturity.

Because through that we can then tell if they’re mature or not for a higher rank, so in most cases… Mature enough for the awesome rank. If you want builders to actually start building instead of them trying to be mini mods, constantly reporting grief and not building. You need the proving grounds to actually be engineer. So that will stop the older builders from complaining, to prove they can handle a higher rank.

Afraid some aren’t ready yet? Just see how they act. See how the think. If you think this builder has built enough for the server, allow them to be able to kick, it will be still… ultimately up to the red-names to see if they’re good enough like always. And if someone does make someone an engineer and they abuse that power or seem to be gloating with it. All they can do is kick, nothing ground shattering or server corrupting. Someone will complain and they’ll be demoted, simple as that.

I'll also like to add that people want to have fun, if people are getting angry in situations like there people aren't having fun. You can't just tell someone HAVE FUN. Because you can't force fun on people. Considering this IMO will bring the fun back for me, if other people suffer the same displeasure and I know they do. It will solve the problem of...

-Builders not building because they're trying to become engies
-Builders getting angry about ranks
-And bringing the fun back to classic for them.

So, that’s what I’ve been thinking, I’ve been articulating this post for a very long time now, it has been on my mind for quite some time now and it’s a relief that I finally got it down and that I finally posted it on the forums.

Wanna TL;DR? Here's one
No new rank, but have the proving grounds for higher ranks actually be engineer so veteran builders can prove themselves for a higher rank and thus, builders actually start building again without having to try and become mini mods and pester higher ranks into banning players for them and seem like they're trying to get a higher rank subtly.​

i can't agree with your point...

-builders don't build because the want to rank up? if they want to get promotion they have to prove that they worth it, but still no one stops them from building

-builders getting angry about ranks? why? they feel that they deserved more than the other people that get promoted before them? then why don't they try more?

-about fun... well personally i have fun helping people(because i suck on building but shhh), for others it may be building stuff, others just want to communicate with other people... but whatever makes you happy it's Your and only Your choice on what you want to do so there is no reason to complain...

also i agree with what Casey and Crane said, getting an engineer+ rank it's not easy and if for some reason you don't have fun you can just close the game and find something else to do...
it's just a game...
 
Maybe I find fun in that, your opinion of "fun" isn't mine.

We specifically do not promote people who have "fun" from moderating. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it prevents power-happy players from getting power they want, but cannot properly handle. JerzeyLegend and ConroD are both prime examples of people who originally wanted to mod just for "fun," and thus blocked their promotions for several months.

tl;dr: Moderating is for real. It's a job that people do to help the community out, not a game where people can fight each other for power. Typically people who are "trying hard to get ranked up" are the last ones we would ever promote.
 
what i would tell the builders that are unpleased with how the promotions work... as wooty said these ranks are meant for moderation, not adding swagger to your name. You are sure you want to help the users of the server out? Great! Be helpful, Be humble and don't try too hard, achieving engie is not that difficult really. Also you can gain popularity and many friends throughout the ranks even rockin in cyan.. just sayin...
you're helping out but nothing's happening? Chill, you've been noticed, just be patient! ;D
 
I've only been Engineer for 3 days but for me it doesn't seem any different than when I was a builder. I still talk to all my builder friends (and awesome/engineer friends) as much as I did before. I do builds with the guests even. The point of the ranks isn't to separate or segregate anybody. They need people in the server that can kick/ban to help fight the griefers but they can't just give every veteran player the ability to kick someone. It would cause as much damage in the wrong hands as the griefers do every day.

I do appreciate that it's annoying to see your friends outrank you but their promotion isn't a personal attack against anyone. You will get there too when the time is right. Plus it's about more than just ingame hours/chat. Forums and mumble matter too because it shows you're part of the community. Engineer and up isn't a status. It's a responsibility.

EDIT:
Also, as a side note. The only difference between the mod/admin ranks and the builder ranks is the ability to deal with griefers. As a builder I still built the pumpkin that was in the Main world for halloween. And I was in the T9K group picture. I started making a new Admin center with two Awesome ranked people before I was promoted too. The game doesn't change after builder.
 
Seems like it comes down to who the "red names" like and don't like more than anything. If they want a bunch of kiss-asses moderating their server more power to them. Wanna get promoted? Better start wearing some chapstick and maybe bring along some disinfectant wipes.
 
Seems like it comes down to who the "red names" like and don't like more than anything. If they want a bunch of kiss-asses moderating their server more power to them. Wanna get promoted? Better start wearing some chapstick and maybe bring along some disinfectant wipes.

If you don't have anything good to say, like something constructive, please don't say it; especially tossing around random insults. If you don't like something we are doing, how about we discuss it in private, through a pm so that we do not start unnecessary flame wars. Stick to constructive posts please, and lets not violate the rules of the forums.
 
We specifically do not promote people who have "fun" from moderating. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it prevents power-happy players from getting power they want, but cannot properly handle. JerzeyLegend and ConroD are both prime examples of people who originally wanted to mod just for "fun," and thus blocked their promotions for several months.

tl;dr: Moderating is for real. It's a job that people do to help the community out, not a game where people can fight each other for power. Typically people who are "trying hard to get ranked up" are the last ones we would ever promote.
I never said I found moderating "fun". I just find the fact that builders, the people who build the server. Aren't apart of the "Team"
 
I never said I found moderating "fun". I just find the fact that builders, the people who build the server. Aren't apart of the "Team"

Our team consists of everyone. How involved you are is the determining factor to whether or not you are "part" of the team (although everyone is part of the team). Look at minerjuco, he was a fine example of that.
 
What happened with Minerjuco? I don't recognize that name.

Minerjuco was a builder. Zone11 came about because of him. He came up with the idea, planned it, and put hours and hours of work into it. It was quite awesome. He was a great builder.
 
Minerjuco was a builder. Zone11 came about because of him. He came up with the idea, planned it, and put hours and hours of work into it. It was quite awesome. He was a great builder.

Zone 11 is something amazing. I was just in there the other day. That boy does good work.
 
I still reckon their should be some sorta goal for the step from Builder to Engy. I mean, it's kinda like, "What do I do now?"

I reckon some criteria should be made apparent for Engy. It's, what, a few good builds and 40 hours minimum for Builder? Why not make it
> consistently large or good builds
> involvement in the community
> good behaviour
> 250< hours
Or something along those lines.

You know, give people some sorta definitive thing to work on instead of "Oh, we'll just pick who we think's doin' a good job."
I know I find that I'm more motivated when I've got a clear goal and a clear deadline.

Just my two cents; I don't go on Classic that often any more.
 
I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but when everything is said and done, the ranks don't matter at all in this game. The game itself is simply a sanbox world where you can build anything your mind can come up with. In our server, we've added ranks to grant permissions to certain blocks/commands that are otherwise taxing on the server in one way or another and to help regulate and control the masses of new players who come into the server everyday. The ranks aren't an addition to the game to make it more interesting, plain and simple. They're a tool to help Woot, et. al. with moderating the server when they are not available to do so themselves. If we were to take away the ranks, grant everyone access to all the blocks and certain commands, and only have a small group of people who could moderate, chaos would ensue and the moderators would burn out very quickly. These ranks are a graduated approach to the matter, and regulate who is capable, willing, and able to handle the tasks of being a moderator, and testing the person for the next step. You're not playing the game at all when you're a moderator.
 
I still reckon their should be some sorta goal for the step from Builder to Engy. I mean, it's kinda like, "What do I do now?"

I reckon some criteria should be made apparent for Engy. It's, what, a few good builds and 40 hours minimum for Builder? Why not make it
> consistently large or good builds
> involvement in the community
> good behaviour
> 250< hours
Or something along those lines.

You know, give people some sorta definitive thing to work on instead of "Oh, we'll just pick who we think's doin' a good job."
I know I find that I'm more motivated when I've got a clear goal and a clear deadline.

Just my two cents; I don't go on Classic that often any more.

We can sit here and try to set guidelines, which is a good idea, we can make it easier to become an engineer, which the idea proposed for that isn't that bad. We can do a lot of things, but it will change NOTHING. If we set guidelines, people are still going to get passed up, they are still going to be in a position that they feel that THEY are ready to be promoted, but they aren't. Not everyone can be engineer, its a moderation rank, not just the next rank to make. We have made it easier, and we have set more and more guidelines out there for people asking, but the people who don't make it will always be throwing a mess around. If we set the line back some, or if we put guidelines out there, the ranks still bottleneck at Builder, so there will be people not promoted, and they will feel like its an unweighted system. Guess what, it is. Engineer is a moderation rank used to help the server, its not a next in line rank meant for everyone and no matter what is done, people will always complain about it. We move it up and promote all the people that are builder now, then the people who have yet to be builder will complain about it as soon they make builder. Like I said, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and no matter WHERE we draw it, people will be unhappy. The biggest issue I have noticed however, seems to be that people think Engineer is just the next rank, and they strive to make it, but it isn't. Engineer+ is a rank structure of its own, meant to moderate the server, not to be the next rank to achieve in game. I am sorry certain people did not make Engineer. I am sorry people find it difficult and I am sure in some cases unfair. However, we can not just go around promoting people because they are having a hard time.
If we set solid guidelines out there, people will strive to be Engineer, right? So what happens now when someone strives to be Engineer and while their friend makes it, they do not. Now they are going to be disheartened and most likely angry. If we set guidelines out, that will cause several problems and is contradictory of the rank. First, the rank is meant for people who don't want to really moderate, so setting guidelines contradicts that. Two, setting guidelines entails that everyone can make Engineer, when only a very small percentage of builders can make it. Finally, if we have to sit here and spell out what it means to be Engineer, and you guys can not figure it out, then what does that say about how you would handle the position? Sure, some of you need a helping hand, but the idea engineer doesn't need it spelled out, he/she can watch engineers, and see how they act. The builder is able to learn from situations in game and apply that to his position. If you can not do that, then how can we expect you to learn from situations in game that help you deal with guests and their problems?
Please keep in mind that just because we do not agree with your ideas, that does not mean we do not appreciate them. Not every idea is plausible and possible. If your idea gets shot down, keep in mind that a lot goes on behind the scenes, and that while it may be a good idea, more comes into play then you may think. Please do not let this stop you from posting your ideas in the future. If you have more to add here, feel free. As long as this stays a discussion and does not turn into a flame war or argument, I have no problem talking about it. If you have an issue with myself or something I said, feel free to PM me about it.
 
If we set guidelines out, that will cause several problems and is contradictory of the rank. First, the rank is meant for people who don't want to really moderate, so setting guidelines contradicts that.
I understand what you're saying except for the part I quoted, mind going into more detail about that? I'm sure there's something I'm missing.

I've kind have given up and I really don't care any more, it was a thought in my head that grew out of control and when I pressed "Post reply" I kind of regretted it, to be honest. I feel like an ass for complaining about not earning a rank, and I apologise.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top