Melexiious
Well-Known Member
It needs to be automatic and not given, if it's given then People will ask for it. If the title is given it'll give reason for people to ask for it, defeating one of the points for it.
-
You're viewing the Team9000 Archives. These old threads are closed to new comments, but if something interests you or you have a question, feel free to open a new thread in the main forums.
Too many players
- Thread starter StTheo
- Start date
ienjoywaffles
Well-Known Member
Well that's just the thing, there is no record kept for when many survival T9kers joined. Unlike classic there wasn't a system that keeps track of you and when you joined.
In addition to the other flaws that other people said:
we also would have a problem with the people who joined once, left for almost a year, and returns bearing the veteran symbol when nobody has ever even seen that person."HOW DO I B VETARAN?" or "HOW CAN I BE GREEN?" Fix one problem, create another is all I'm saying
I think getting the new people to be able to identify veterans is a great thing but having that luxury would create many problems and confusion
Melexiious
Well-Known Member
Allimon
Well-Known Member
It's not very easy to get Active member. Before a person even attains that, if said person were to be a spamming type, the time it takes to get enough likes and posts would allow Wooty to ban such a person's account.
The next issue arises in linking the forum account to the Minecraft account as some people don't have their forum account the same as their Minecraft one.
The next issue arises in linking the forum account to the Minecraft account as some people don't have their forum account the same as their Minecraft one.
StTheo
Well-Known Member
Maybe instead of having a veteran rank, you have a newcomer rank and standard rank. You go from newcomer to standard by registering your minecraft name on www.team9000.net. Newcomers might have to wait in the spawn tower's maze, or can't use chat, or both.
Vincent2128
Well-Known Member
Ok, certainly there are some good ideas floating around, but I don't like the idea of T9K ending up a Bukkit heavy server with a load of ranks, Classic style.
moondoggy23
Well-Known Member
I fail to see the point of adding ranks in SMP. If you've been here for a while, then the rest of us who have been here for as long or longer know who you are and the newer members should take their cues from how everyone reacts and behaves around everyone else. Frankly, I don't care if you're new or not, if you talk to me and I'm not AFK or otherwise indisposed, I'll respond. I think everyone posting on here complaining about noobs and being disrespected and what-not are forgetting one very important rule:
-Treat others as you wished to be treated.
-Treat others as you wished to be treated.
Vincent2128
Well-Known Member
However, I don't see how Skryter could possibly be treating the noobs wrong.
moondoggy23
Well-Known Member
I wasn't specifically addressing his concern, but making a general observation. In skryter's case, it would seem that particular instance was the straw that broke the camel's back.
DOS622
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to find out who has been around for more than a year and who hasn't. I haven't been. I wonder how many of the people who troll newbies would get this mark which is meant to summon respect? e.g. imagine this:
[Veteran] player1: hit Alt-F4 to get into creative mode
DOS622: creative mode isn't available on this server
Does the [Veteran] help there?
Vincent2128
Well-Known Member
And the obvious counter argument is that of ranks, and so on as went on above.
In the end, without a Classic style rank system (which would just make the server boring), it'd be really impossible to determine who can be trusted with a title like that.
jrl51592
Active Member
I personally don't want titles in SMP. Really in my opinion, the admins should be the only ones with a title. But If you want a title, than go play classic and earn a title. I'm much happier not having a title in SMP. Like if I earn the trust and respect of others, than I want my name to be recognized, not a title that I might have next to my name. But yeah, that's my two cents.
jrl51592
Active Member
Good point. Okay maybe we do need a ranking system for SMP or atleast admins on SMP more often.
moondoggy23
Well-Known Member
Mods can't control the questions that new users ask, even in Classic. Just like in Classic, a mod can check the grief on a build and ban the user later on, they don't have to be caught in the act. Three mods for the amount of traffic we have on the SMP server is fine. Ranks will only ruin the game.
JerzeyLegend
Well-Known Member
Moondoggy, I disagree. We are gaining traffic, and it seems to be increasing steadily.
We do not have enough ACTIVE moderators. Ozy and Sonic can be summoned, but only if they are here. We have grief on our South spawn rail that has yet to be fixed, 2 days running now.
Having some moderators on will help ease spam, grief, etc, and have it dealt with quickly. Woot knows who he can trust. There are systems in place to keep those mods from cheating. Perhaps some sort of system that allows mods to only kick or ban and not have access to creative or console commands outside of that. The only reason I see him not adding regular players is to prevent them from giving thier towns copious amounts of resources, so just block those abilities. If I were mod, all I would need is kick, ban, and the ability to teleport to people to see the grief. Then either the people can fix it, or give the ability to fix it via revert, world edit.
If a mod is abusing this abilities, he will know, and everyone else will make it known too.
Having a veteran title will alert new members to show some respect, or at least it will try to. If that's the case, the army shouldn't have it's officers wear rank, everyone should know who they are, or treat them with respect. That logic doesn't work.
In a perfect minecraft world, everyone who joins the server would show everyone respect and hospitality, but this is not the case. The stupid questions get asked anyway, so who even cares if one more (How do I get veteran?) is thrown in the mix.
Edit: If anything, perhaps a trial run.
We do not have enough ACTIVE moderators. Ozy and Sonic can be summoned, but only if they are here. We have grief on our South spawn rail that has yet to be fixed, 2 days running now.
Having some moderators on will help ease spam, grief, etc, and have it dealt with quickly. Woot knows who he can trust. There are systems in place to keep those mods from cheating. Perhaps some sort of system that allows mods to only kick or ban and not have access to creative or console commands outside of that. The only reason I see him not adding regular players is to prevent them from giving thier towns copious amounts of resources, so just block those abilities. If I were mod, all I would need is kick, ban, and the ability to teleport to people to see the grief. Then either the people can fix it, or give the ability to fix it via revert, world edit.
If a mod is abusing this abilities, he will know, and everyone else will make it known too.
Having a veteran title will alert new members to show some respect, or at least it will try to. If that's the case, the army shouldn't have it's officers wear rank, everyone should know who they are, or treat them with respect. That logic doesn't work.
In a perfect minecraft world, everyone who joins the server would show everyone respect and hospitality, but this is not the case. The stupid questions get asked anyway, so who even cares if one more (How do I get veteran?) is thrown in the mix.
Edit: If anything, perhaps a trial run.
TheGurw
Well-Known Member
How about a completely different solution?
First, several points have been made: the first and foremost of which is that we need more active moderation. I could see a 24-hour team of 5-8 moderators just to control spamming, trolling, grief, theft, etc. What I mean by that is 5-8 people who commonly get on the server in overlapping periods of time covering the whole 24 hours. Double up during the busiest periods, set up a moderator chat channel for the overlaps, the whole nine yards. This would be something to take time and consider carefully, since moderators would be elevated much the same as admins, but be required to dedicate large amounts of time to being available; as well, they would have ban and revert powers (obviously not something to take lightly). Tofurkey is doing a decent job of just that, although the amount of AFK time the admins take is somewhat disconcerting.
Second, a time-delay rank is about as useful as giving a new player OP. Respect shouldn't be earned solely on a time-basis; it should be earned on a personal level; each individual being given separate consideration based on length of membership, knowledge, helpfulness, and somewhat more importantly (at least in my humble opinion) time played per day. One thing many people will probably argue against is popularity of the player. If a player is well-known, and greeted server-wide on a (usually) positive basis, usually that means they're doing something right. Not always, but usually. It should be taken into consideration as well.
Now, what do we call someone who has been around for a while, is full of knowledge and willing to share it, makes above-and-beyond attempts to be helpful, spends a lot of time with the community on a daily basis, and is thought of in a positive light by a large portion of the people they come in contact with?
Where I come from, we call them Teachers or, in my specific line of work, we call them Journeymen.
I propose a different solution. Instead of "Veterans" or "Trusted" ranks that imply added benefits (from a new player perspective, especially if they come from other servers where these ranks have said benefits; or they might think that they need to have that rank to build in the Towny-protected areas), create a "Teacher" rank that gives nothing more than a title showing that the admins and moderators trust these people with the indoctrination of new players. These Teachers would meet all of the above criteria, and would essentially be required to help new players. Bias towards individual towns shouldn't be displayed, of course, and the Teachers would have their own set of impartiality rules to adhere to.
Now, for Teachers to do their job, a lot of support would need to be given to them. The information they supply would have to be readily available for them to learn, and to direct new players to. For example, "For help with Towns, besides what I've told you, you can go to https://t9k.me/1oJ". Moderators/Admins should be around regularly to provide that extra authority when a new player decides to ignore the rules and the help of the Teachers and start grieving/spamming/etc. The other players on the server should be respectful of the Teachers and not spout contradictions (unless the Teacher is incorrect, in which case the other players should make an attempt to enlighten the Teacher on the correct information - they're only human, after all!). Other players would need to keep in mind that there are no benefits to being a Teacher, it would only add responsibilities (well, a little more respect from the new players - hopefully - but that is hardly enough to counter the negatives). Being a Teacher would be a volunteer position, one that the player could step down from at any time if they feel they are losing enjoyment of the game.
I choose the name Teacher because it implies nothing but knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge. New players generally wouldn't see any real draw to quickly rank up to it, because it doesn't imply power, only a moderate amount of respect. And above all, it commands respect from those who don't know as much about the server. A Teacher's name would stand out from the rest of the players by virtue of the title alone, and the information they are trying to pass along would be noticed much faster than a standard player's.
The one thing I could see Teachers gaining would be the ability to teleport to the different graveyards and to spawn. Pointedly limited to being used only to help new players, abuse of this would mean a fast demotion. By no means would this be a requirement, and I definitely see some potential abuse occurring. Hopefully the players chosen as Teachers would be more honourable than that, however.
I don't expect to see any of this happen. I'm only making the suggestion.
First, several points have been made: the first and foremost of which is that we need more active moderation. I could see a 24-hour team of 5-8 moderators just to control spamming, trolling, grief, theft, etc. What I mean by that is 5-8 people who commonly get on the server in overlapping periods of time covering the whole 24 hours. Double up during the busiest periods, set up a moderator chat channel for the overlaps, the whole nine yards. This would be something to take time and consider carefully, since moderators would be elevated much the same as admins, but be required to dedicate large amounts of time to being available; as well, they would have ban and revert powers (obviously not something to take lightly). Tofurkey is doing a decent job of just that, although the amount of AFK time the admins take is somewhat disconcerting.
Second, a time-delay rank is about as useful as giving a new player OP. Respect shouldn't be earned solely on a time-basis; it should be earned on a personal level; each individual being given separate consideration based on length of membership, knowledge, helpfulness, and somewhat more importantly (at least in my humble opinion) time played per day. One thing many people will probably argue against is popularity of the player. If a player is well-known, and greeted server-wide on a (usually) positive basis, usually that means they're doing something right. Not always, but usually. It should be taken into consideration as well.
Now, what do we call someone who has been around for a while, is full of knowledge and willing to share it, makes above-and-beyond attempts to be helpful, spends a lot of time with the community on a daily basis, and is thought of in a positive light by a large portion of the people they come in contact with?
Where I come from, we call them Teachers or, in my specific line of work, we call them Journeymen.
A quick note on sexism in the trades. They are called Journeymen. Not Journeywomen, not Journeypersons, not Journeypeople, they are Journeymen. Man, woman, or other, they are all Journeymen. Aside from it being a pain in the ass to change all the legal documents, all people are part of Mankind, and are therefore part of the species we know as Man. Therefore, Journeyman.
I propose a different solution. Instead of "Veterans" or "Trusted" ranks that imply added benefits (from a new player perspective, especially if they come from other servers where these ranks have said benefits; or they might think that they need to have that rank to build in the Towny-protected areas), create a "Teacher" rank that gives nothing more than a title showing that the admins and moderators trust these people with the indoctrination of new players. These Teachers would meet all of the above criteria, and would essentially be required to help new players. Bias towards individual towns shouldn't be displayed, of course, and the Teachers would have their own set of impartiality rules to adhere to.
Now, for Teachers to do their job, a lot of support would need to be given to them. The information they supply would have to be readily available for them to learn, and to direct new players to. For example, "For help with Towns, besides what I've told you, you can go to https://t9k.me/1oJ". Moderators/Admins should be around regularly to provide that extra authority when a new player decides to ignore the rules and the help of the Teachers and start grieving/spamming/etc. The other players on the server should be respectful of the Teachers and not spout contradictions (unless the Teacher is incorrect, in which case the other players should make an attempt to enlighten the Teacher on the correct information - they're only human, after all!). Other players would need to keep in mind that there are no benefits to being a Teacher, it would only add responsibilities (well, a little more respect from the new players - hopefully - but that is hardly enough to counter the negatives). Being a Teacher would be a volunteer position, one that the player could step down from at any time if they feel they are losing enjoyment of the game.
I choose the name Teacher because it implies nothing but knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge. New players generally wouldn't see any real draw to quickly rank up to it, because it doesn't imply power, only a moderate amount of respect. And above all, it commands respect from those who don't know as much about the server. A Teacher's name would stand out from the rest of the players by virtue of the title alone, and the information they are trying to pass along would be noticed much faster than a standard player's.
The one thing I could see Teachers gaining would be the ability to teleport to the different graveyards and to spawn. Pointedly limited to being used only to help new players, abuse of this would mean a fast demotion. By no means would this be a requirement, and I definitely see some potential abuse occurring. Hopefully the players chosen as Teachers would be more honourable than that, however.
I don't expect to see any of this happen. I'm only making the suggestion.
Psychedelic10
Active Member
In the test room "the map looks nice!" area should be changed to "where on the map is sign island?" "East" or "West." That would hit two birds with one stone.
lol
DOS622
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this would fix all the problems, but sounds like it would help! And also I think it addresses one of my concerns - I imagine:
Noob: HOW DO I B TEACHAR?
[Teacher] Person: By knowing all the rules and details of how the server works and answering questions.
Noob: NOOOOOOOOOOO
Noob: I hereby withdraw my application for "Teacher"!
Cool, that sounds like a great idea!
moondoggy23
Well-Known Member
Clayto: Shitting on everything anyone says since 2011.
Really dude, if you've got nothing beneficial to add to the topic, then don't add anything. Almost anything I read you've posted has been nothing but passive-agressive swipes at Woot and the other moderators/admins on SMP and Classic. If you don't like how we're running things, then either provide some suggestions or shut up. Much to your jaded belief, what is discussed on the forums does get considered and implemented. Not everything gets implemented, but a number of things do. I'm sorry if it takes a glacially long time for anything to change, but it is pretty much just one guy running the website, and the servers, and his own business and going to school and writing code to integrate all of the different software/programs he uses so it's easier for him and for others to moderate and obtain new tools to improve and assist the community. Not to mention, he's doing all of this for free.
What The Gurw said is a good idea (the Teacher rank). I personally am still uncertain about adding ranks into SMP, because of how Classic works and how much some people are frenzied about getting to the next rank, rather than playing the game. I am very confident that there will be players in the SMP server that will become the same way and do who knows what to earn that rank because they feel it will make them look cooler in the eyes of others or whatever the motivation may be. I suppose I need just a little bit more convincing.
I would also be inclined to think that establishing some sort of schedule for the moderators would be asking maybe a bit too much from those individuals without some sort of compensation, which will most likely never happen. I can't really say whether we need more moderators, since I'm not on much.