A Philosophical Encounter with the Unexpected

[Tai_K_Yagami]

I don't know if Serenity already made a thread like this but this thread is inspired by Serenity's amazing and thoughtful questions.

When I was in Classic the other month, I had this conversation with a Guest player that, as usual, questioned the logic of the rules. Though what was interesting was that the player desired to seek a deeper meaning of its content. So we had a huge debate about what standpoint does the symbol of the swastika represent. The player inquired that the Swas was but a symbol as the cross was a symbol for Christians. I refuted by saying that the symbol desperately called out to the player that the majority of the population recognizes the level of meaning behind it, evil.

But, "majority": the key word. Fundamentally speaking, the majority of the world has at least a vague acknowledgement on what a Swas is or what any infamous symbol represents. I found the player to be a very contradictory one and even admitted to it. That person asked about what is the nature of law and conduct? Why must we as humans act in accordance with the rest of the world to be considered a part of it and to what extent does it bring us to being any closer to human in that matter?

I basically told the player that it is only healthy to believe in respect to what is perceived as good by humans in general. That player was one of a few people who like to think from a critical perspective and many would consider the very thoughts to be those of an anarchist. Yet, this is the very question he/she asks.

From what kind of perspective do humans properly define customary? Are we evil, good? Are humans subjective and arbitrary to believe in what is socially acceptable collectively and ignore thoughts deemed incoherent with our nature? If so, why do we develop a "side" so-to-speak? Is it through our conscience that we do so? Why do we have such a capacity to do so? Who are we really?

Here are his/her words:

[2013-07-09 00:16:51] driscol: we create our own reality through our actions
[2013-07-09 00:16:56] driscol: we shape our actions through thought
[2013-07-09 00:17:07] driscol: our thoughts are shaped by our teachings and
[2013-07-09 00:17:08] > language

This player has blown my mind since.

 

[DarkPrime25]

It's human nature to take sides for survival purposes or just for beliefs.

But of course in reality there are no sides. It's what the person believes in.

 

[Tai_K_Yagami]

It's human nature to take sides for survival purposes or just for beliefs.

But of course in reality there are no sides. It's what the person believes in.

You seem to be a bit contradictory yourself.

 

[MiniCacti]

I don't know if Serenity already made a thread like this but this thread is inspired by Serenity's amazing and thoughtful questions.

When I was in Classic the other month, I had this conversation with a Guest player that, as usual, questioned the logic of the rules. Though what was interesting was that the player desired to seek a deeper meaning of its content. So we had a huge debate about what standpoint does the symbol of the swastika represent. The player inquired that the Swas was but a symbol as the cross was a symbol for Christians. I refuted by saying that the symbol desperately called out to the player that the majority of the population recognizes the level of meaning behind it, evil.

But, "majority": the key word. Fundamentally speaking, the majority of the world has at least a vague acknowledgement on what a Swas is or what any infamous symbol represents. I found the player to be a very contradictory one and even admitted to it. That person asked about what is the nature of law and conduct? Why must we as humans act in accordance with the rest of the world to be considered a part of it and to what extent does it bring us to being any closer to human in that matter?

I basically told the player that it is only healthy to believe in respect to what is perceived as good by humans in general. That player was one of a few people who like to think from a critical perspective and many would consider the very thoughts to be those of an anarchist. Yet, this is the very question he/she asks.

From what kind of perspective do humans properly define customary? Are we evil, good? Are humans subjective and arbitrary to believe in what is socially acceptable collectively and ignore thoughts deemed incoherent with our nature? If so, why do we develop a "side" so-to-speak? Is it through our conscience that we do so? Why do we have such a capacity to do so? Who are we really?

Here are his/her words:


This player has blown my mind since.

We develop sides because there is often strength in numbers. We set rules and procedures for (hopefully) the betterment of our side, ourselves, and those/what we care about. You can chose to create/join whatever side you feel, but if your side contradicts another they may take both issue with you and action against you. Like two ant colonies fighting over food or territory - your philosophical presumably-swastika-building player may say/believe whatever they please, but most of us take issue with them and we have banhammers.

Quick edit: I appreciate you giving credit to Serenity. Those are among my favorite threads.

 

[Tai_K_Yagami]

Yeah. I enjoy Serenity's threads. Also, there will be no need for banhammers. driscol wasn't an uncooperative or unstable player like most who question the rules. Trust me. If I felt as if he was a threat to the Classic community, this thread would have been on the other side and not here by now.

When I meant debate, I meant we were philosophizing over what makes us human and what satisfies for the idea of symbols(an understatement. Our conversation hit so deep in thought that my brain may have felt as if it were going to explode). The player took deep thought as I had. Also, another reason I wish Serenity could have been there. He would have loved our mind boggling conversation.

Anyways, it went deeper than talking about a swas. Like I said, driscol was one of the few that, although I accused him for being one-perspective person, driscol had very intuitive thinking on just to think a little about the other side and understand from a perspective beyond our own. driscol helped me see that perspective that day.

Just more stuff(An interesting person this player is):

[2013-07-09 00:13:48] Tai_K_Yagami: Yet, we are bound between the confines of our
[2013-07-09 00:13:48] > own mind. We cannot go beyond it and enter reality.
[2013-07-09 00:14:02] driscol: so we are taught
[2013-07-09 00:14:09] driscol: many have, they are called crazy
[2013-07-09 00:20:25] Tai_K_Yagami: The difference between you and me is that I
[2013-07-09 00:20:25] > learn to accept the realities without thoroughly questioning
[2013-07-09 00:20:25] > it so much.
[2013-07-09 00:20:41] driscol: is that a good thing do you think?
[2013-07-09 00:20:48] driscol: I use to too, it lead to a dark place
[2013-07-09 00:22:49] Tai_K_Yagami: Thanks for all the discussion driscol.
[2013-07-09 00:22:53] Tai_K_Yagami: I have not ever met
[2013-07-09 00:22:56] driscol: I can abide by these rules because I choose to be
[2013-07-09 00:22:57] > here
[2013-07-09 00:23:01] Partial: a person who has had shared the same
[2013-07-09 00:23:06] driscol: societies rules is another story
[2013-07-09 00:23:08] Tai_K_Yagami: a person who has had shared the same thoughts
[2013-07-09 00:23:09] > about the universe.
[2013-07-09 00:23:22] Voice chat with your building buddies! www.t9k.me/talk
[2013-07-09 00:23:23] driscol: same here, this was a lot of fun
[2013-07-09 00:23:27] Tai_K_Yagami: Yup.
[2013-07-09 00:23:33] Tai_K_Yagami: Anyways, my brain is fried.
[2013-07-09 00:23:42] driscol: can I tell you one more thing
[2013-07-09 00:23:44] Tai_K_Yagami: I will go back to playing and stuff.
[2013-07-09 00:23:47] driscol: if you ever have a bit of legal trouble
[2013-07-09 00:23:48] Tai_K_Yagami: Okay driscol.
[2013-07-09 00:24:02] driscol: when the police tell you your "rights" and ask if
[2013-07-09 00:24:02] > you
[2013-07-09 00:24:07] We have voice chat! Check out www.t9k.me/talk
[2013-07-09 00:24:15] driscol: understand, do not say yes. Say no or "I do not
[2013-07-09 00:24:15] > recogni
[2013-07-09 00:24:25] driscol: recognize your authority"
[2013-07-09 00:24:31] Tai_K_Yagami: Woah.
[2013-07-09 00:24:34] driscol: saying yes is agreeing to a verbal contract
[2013-07-09 00:24:36] Tai_K_Yagami: I don't wanna get arrested.
[2013-07-09 00:24:42] driscol: nor do I
[2013-07-09 00:24:46] driscol: hence I learn the rules
[2013-07-09 00:24:51] Tai_K_Yagami: Cool.
[2013-07-09 00:24:52] Voice chat with your building buddies! www.t9k.me/talk
[2013-07-09 00:24:53] driscol: it's a vassalage not slavery,
[2013-07-09 00:25:03] driscol: they need you to agree to be their servant or
[2013-07-09 00:25:03] > prisoner
[2013-07-09 00:25:08] Tai_K_Yagami: I'll just say "I plead the 5th!"
[2013-07-09 00:25:09] driscol: in a sense, that's not always the case obviously
[2013-07-09 00:25:13] driscol: no
[2013-07-09 00:25:17] Tai_K_Yagami: Haha.
[2013-07-09 00:25:18] driscol: I mean I wouldn't
[2013-07-09 00:25:25] driscol: to hell with the bill of rights
[2013-07-09 00:25:32] Tai_K_Yagami: Okay,
[2013-07-09 00:25:35] driscol: we decide our rights, not a bunch of old dead slave
[2013-07-09 00:25:35] > own
[2013-07-09 00:25:37] driscol: owners
[2013-07-09 00:25:37] Check out our website at www.team9000.net
[2013-07-09 00:25:42] canacona: deafening in 3... 2... 1...
[2013-07-09 00:25:46] driscol: Sorry XP I get passionate about that stuff

 

[Kris]

It has been said many times before that good and evil are decided by those with power.
Had Germany successfully taken over the world, I highly doubt the Swastika would be such a hated symbol.

Heck, I could make a server where it's against the rules to build anything but Swastikas and Penises, because I as the owner have the power to do so.

Unfortunately there needn't be logic behind the rules or laws of something, fact of the matter is that you're in a certain place at a certain and therefore you have to abide by certain rules, spoken and unspoken.

Edit: [2013-07-09 00:22:56] driscol: I can abide by these rules because I choose to be
[2013-07-09 00:22:57] > here

 

[MotorKat]

Yeah. I enjoy Serenity's threads. Also, there will be no need for banhammers. driscol wasn't an uncooperative or unstable player like most who question the rules. Trust me. If I felt as if he was a threat to the Classic community, this thread would have been on the other side and not here by now.

When I meant debate, I meant we were philosophizing over what makes us human and what satisfies for the idea of symbols(an understatement. Our conversation hit so deep in thought that my brain may have felt as if it were going to explode). The player took deep thought as I had. Also, another reason I wish Serenity could have been there. He would have loved our mind boggling conversation.

Anyways, it went deeper than talking about a swas. Like I said, driscol was one of the few that, although I accused him for being one-perspective person, driscol had very intuitive thinking on just to think a little about the other side and understand from a perspective beyond our own. driscol helped me see that perspective that day.

Just more stuff(An interesting person this player is):

I want to meet this Driscol person in-game... very intriguing!

 

[Tai_K_Yagami]

It has been said many times before that good and evil are decided by those with power.
Had Germany successfully taken over the world, I highly doubt the Swastika would be such a hated symbol.

Heck, I could make a server where it's against the rules to build anything but Swastikas and Penises, because I as the owner have the power to do so.

Unfortunately there needn't be logic behind the rules or laws of something, fact of the matter is that you're in a certain place at a certain and therefore you have to abide by certain rules, spoken and unspoken.

Your reply has quite the driscol passion there but on the way opposite perspective. Rules are rules to you and no argument.

I don't necessarily agree with driscol's thoughts as well. It was just a different side to things. And yeah, I think I squashed driscol hard on having to abide to rules honestly because it was a much healthier thought to trust in it for the betterment of society. Like I have stated in the conversation with the player, I'm as inquisitive as he/she is; however, there comes a time when I keep my mouth shut and not cause a scene about stuff like this. driscol handled it well though. After the philosophical debate, he left without any trouble. I just wish there were more thinking and sharp players like driscol. Maybe not so much as questioning rules that abide to Team9000's Classic Community but people like Serenity with thought-provoking questions.