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T9K reunion server
- Thread starter Mightythedj23
- Start date
Patchouli
Well-Known Member
Well, that worked. And it fixed the problem I had that reinstalling java before didn't fix. I'm so confused.
ChibaMasato
Well-Known Member
Koala magic. Don't question it.
Melexiious
Well-Known Member
So, shall we make a separate thread for a whitelist, or what?
Or should we use this thread for whitelists?
It seems like either Patchy or Theo could host, would either of you prefer?
When would be the best time to host a gamesnight for everyone? I'd be good for this Friday, but that's Oz time, but really, any time is good for me.
Or should we use this thread for whitelists?
It seems like either Patchy or Theo could host, would either of you prefer?
When would be the best time to host a gamesnight for everyone? I'd be good for this Friday, but that's Oz time, but really, any time is good for me.
ChibaMasato
Well-Known Member
We'll make a completely separate thread for the server (Whitelist included) when it's completely ready to have players. A bit of work, planning and testing still needs to be done. For example, I'm positive we still don't have everyone's opinions as to what they want in the server. The gamenight, I recommend, we have once everything's got the green light. However, we could still promote it via chat or Steam (I know some of us have friends who aren't on much anymore since MC went bye-bye, so they might be interested in a new server.). The problem with the 3rd is that it's basically a holiday weekend in the US, with the 4th landing on Friday. So, work on the server might be postponed for a bit longer. As for who hosts, that's between Patchy and Theo, or anyone else willing to help out. I'm gonna leave the decision in their hands.
TheGurw
Well-Known Member
I'm of the opinion that the following applies:
1. The Outlands (pre-city-integration, Beta 1.0-1.5) was the best set-up the server ever had, with some days having over 100 simultaneous players. A large, essentially borderless (trimming regularly occurred) and lawless zone (see point 2) with protected spawn and portals to extremely small protected "Cities" that were mostly whitelisted and had (sometimes strict) rules.
2. The Beta 1.8 server was the second best set-up the server ever had. Fraught with danger and excitement, with an imminent world wipe already decided before the world began, everyone acted like nomads, never getting attached to their stuff, not building fancy but hiding instead. PvP was a thing. It was good in this setting.
3. Towny Towns were neat, but got quickly out of hand. Towns should not be involved.
4. That WorldGuard protection thing Woot made. Just no.
5. Separate mining world? I don't think so.
6. The 3rd best set-up was Firethorn. It was limited in growth because of the whitelisting though. Really only had people who were already part of T9k. However, no plots, no towns per say...it was good.
THUS:
1. Protected areas (cities) should be limited size, whitelisted building zones, each having one dedicated player in charge of whitelisting and city moderation (call them Mayor, why not), replaced if needed. Individual cities can decide on whether they want the position to be democratic or not - admins can overrule a vote if the Mayor gets power-crazed. Cities can decide if they want a dynamic map.
2. Administration of the server should be limited to whoever hosts it, and anyone doing plugin development.
3. Moderation of the server should be limited to the Mayors, who have jurisdiction over their cities and that's it.
4. Players can check history to report theft or grief. Mayors can freeze, mute, jail, and kick. Administrators can ban. Keeping the ultimate punishment in the hands of a select group of people keeps it out of the hands of power-hungry assholes.
5. Anywhere not protected is lawless. The main world is borderless. No dynamic map for these "Outlands 2.0." PvP is on. Players can request an extremely small protected zone if they want to build out here (no larger than 25x25x25, aboveground, far away from spawn), but that will not turn off PvP.
6. Admins get access to everything, because plugin testing and because server host (plugins should be tested on a backup server before going live though).
7. Mayors get access to only what they need to do their moderation and whitelisting duties, otherwise they are regular players.
I'm sure there's more suggestions possible. I also have ideas on what existing plugins could make this happen, and a few I could write to make fancy shit happen.
EDIT1: We could also move away from Bukkit and instead start making a custom modpack server. Just an idea.
EDIT2: Added "far away from spawn" to protected Outlands 2.0 builds. Helps to keep the spawn region naturally grief-heavy, like it should be.
1. The Outlands (pre-city-integration, Beta 1.0-1.5) was the best set-up the server ever had, with some days having over 100 simultaneous players. A large, essentially borderless (trimming regularly occurred) and lawless zone (see point 2) with protected spawn and portals to extremely small protected "Cities" that were mostly whitelisted and had (sometimes strict) rules.
2. The Beta 1.8 server was the second best set-up the server ever had. Fraught with danger and excitement, with an imminent world wipe already decided before the world began, everyone acted like nomads, never getting attached to their stuff, not building fancy but hiding instead. PvP was a thing. It was good in this setting.
3. Towny Towns were neat, but got quickly out of hand. Towns should not be involved.
4. That WorldGuard protection thing Woot made. Just no.
5. Separate mining world? I don't think so.
6. The 3rd best set-up was Firethorn. It was limited in growth because of the whitelisting though. Really only had people who were already part of T9k. However, no plots, no towns per say...it was good.
THUS:
1. Protected areas (cities) should be limited size, whitelisted building zones, each having one dedicated player in charge of whitelisting and city moderation (call them Mayor, why not), replaced if needed. Individual cities can decide on whether they want the position to be democratic or not - admins can overrule a vote if the Mayor gets power-crazed. Cities can decide if they want a dynamic map.
2. Administration of the server should be limited to whoever hosts it, and anyone doing plugin development.
3. Moderation of the server should be limited to the Mayors, who have jurisdiction over their cities and that's it.
4. Players can check history to report theft or grief. Mayors can freeze, mute, jail, and kick. Administrators can ban. Keeping the ultimate punishment in the hands of a select group of people keeps it out of the hands of power-hungry assholes.
5. Anywhere not protected is lawless. The main world is borderless. No dynamic map for these "Outlands 2.0." PvP is on. Players can request an extremely small protected zone if they want to build out here (no larger than 25x25x25, aboveground, far away from spawn), but that will not turn off PvP.
6. Admins get access to everything, because plugin testing and because server host (plugins should be tested on a backup server before going live though).
7. Mayors get access to only what they need to do their moderation and whitelisting duties, otherwise they are regular players.
I'm sure there's more suggestions possible. I also have ideas on what existing plugins could make this happen, and a few I could write to make fancy shit happen.
EDIT1: We could also move away from Bukkit and instead start making a custom modpack server. Just an idea.
EDIT2: Added "far away from spawn" to protected Outlands 2.0 builds. Helps to keep the spawn region naturally grief-heavy, like it should be.
Highrise
Active Member
I am in support of this and see the Outlands system as the best option. However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind.
That "feeling" that most veteran Minecraft players describe comes really from two things--a sense discovering the unknown, whether this be through learning about the game itself or finding outposts thousands of blocks away from spawn, and the associated dangers--and a strong community. We shall never be able to recover the sense of discovering Minecraft itself, but a large, lawless land scattered with outposts certainly fulfills the sense of discovering the map. Some of the best memories I have of the Outlands world consist of walking through a largely run-down skyway and seeing the faint torchlight of small settlements. However, the most vital part to any Minecraft community is just that, the community itself. Small, protected towns promote this. When I say small, though, I do not refer to the number of members; a town with many members packed into a small urban environment is great. I remember walking around on Minetopia's skyway system, as awed by the number of buildings in the safe, settled city as I was by the lawless Outlands. But again, the community itself is extremely important. Setting up a shop with some other player (Unfortunately, I do not remember his name and I doubt he is still around.) and desperately trying to mine resources to sell is without a doubt my best memory of the Outlands server.
It is also important to learn through the failures of other servers. The problem is that the number of active players is a positive-feedback loop; the rate of change of players joining or leaving the server depends on the number of players online and an arbitrary constant. Once the player list tops a certain value, more and more players will stay on the server, but once that number drops, fewer and fewer players will stay. The only way to recover a server in that state is through the dedication of a sufficient number of active players. In other words, those of us wishing to get the server rolling need to play even when no other players are online and hope for the best.
I also have a couple less important things to add. Firstly, it would be interesting to come up with an average value for c to satisfy the equationdp / dt = p + c*; this could potentially help us in figuring out how many people we need on when. Again, this kind of thing is the least of our worries, but it is certainly interesting. Secondly, I've been taking a look at the game minetest recently, or more importantly, dev.minetest.net. At first glance, it looks like a poorly-made Minecraft clone, but it's really made for modding. The default minetest game comes with about ten mods that add simple things like stairs, wool, and buckets. The engine is written in c++, and it's quite easy to modify if you know c++ as minetest is open-source and cross-platform. If you just want to add a block, or "node" as it is called within minetest, just make a lua script in a mod folder and a few textures. A simple mod could be completed withing minutes. Regardless, I see Minecraft as our best choice of a platform, as most people do not know about minetest, and I don't see it as worth playing without some serious modding. I'm not even sure if the multiplayer can support more than tens of players. Again, though, worth a look to inspire some block-related interest.
*p(t) is a function of players with respect to time. Thus, dp / dt = p + c is a differential equation stating that the rate at which players join the server depends on the number of players currently on the server and a constant. The constant would very likely be negative for most players. (I can foresee someone with a really bad computer quitting when more players get on due to lag, but that kind of situation is very rare.) Give me a few minutes to solve it and update the thread, but it's basically just and exponential equation.
Update:
It looks like that equation is incorrect. We're obviously not losing players when there's nobody on. If anyone else can think of a better model, feel free to post about it. I'll give it some thought, but again, I doubt we need to worry about it. It was just for fun.
That "feeling" that most veteran Minecraft players describe comes really from two things--a sense discovering the unknown, whether this be through learning about the game itself or finding outposts thousands of blocks away from spawn, and the associated dangers--and a strong community. We shall never be able to recover the sense of discovering Minecraft itself, but a large, lawless land scattered with outposts certainly fulfills the sense of discovering the map. Some of the best memories I have of the Outlands world consist of walking through a largely run-down skyway and seeing the faint torchlight of small settlements. However, the most vital part to any Minecraft community is just that, the community itself. Small, protected towns promote this. When I say small, though, I do not refer to the number of members; a town with many members packed into a small urban environment is great. I remember walking around on Minetopia's skyway system, as awed by the number of buildings in the safe, settled city as I was by the lawless Outlands. But again, the community itself is extremely important. Setting up a shop with some other player (Unfortunately, I do not remember his name and I doubt he is still around.) and desperately trying to mine resources to sell is without a doubt my best memory of the Outlands server.
It is also important to learn through the failures of other servers. The problem is that the number of active players is a positive-feedback loop; the rate of change of players joining or leaving the server depends on the number of players online and an arbitrary constant. Once the player list tops a certain value, more and more players will stay on the server, but once that number drops, fewer and fewer players will stay. The only way to recover a server in that state is through the dedication of a sufficient number of active players. In other words, those of us wishing to get the server rolling need to play even when no other players are online and hope for the best.
I also have a couple less important things to add. Firstly, it would be interesting to come up with an average value for c to satisfy the equation
*p(t) is a function of players with respect to time. Thus, dp / dt = p + c is a differential equation stating that the rate at which players join the server depends on the number of players currently on the server and a constant. The constant would very likely be negative for most players. (I can foresee someone with a really bad computer quitting when more players get on due to lag, but that kind of situation is very rare.) Give me a few minutes to solve it and update the thread, but it's basically just and exponential equation.
Update:
It looks like that equation is incorrect. We're obviously not losing players when there's nobody on. If anyone else can think of a better model, feel free to post about it. I'll give it some thought, but again, I doubt we need to worry about it. It was just for fun.
TheGurw
Well-Known Member
What are all the variables?
I agree that we need a core group dedicated to being online (I'd say having a player count of 20+, even if most are AFK, is a good start) to have the server show up well in lists.
I don't like minetest. I've played around with it and it feels like it's Minecraft made by people who think they can do better than the original devs, but are actually shit.
Highrise
Active Member
I don't want to derail this thead, so I might start a topic about Minecraft clones if there is not one already.
TheGurw
Well-Known Member
But...what about the variables?
Highrise
Active Member
I was trying not to turn this into a reply chain, so I updated my original post. See the asterisc.
Alyyiah
Well-Known Member
Okey, opinion time.
A reunion server based of T9k's 'glory' days sounds great. A server with a white-list to stop arsemunchers from coming in and doing the same thing that happened to the 'Glory' days server would be even better. However, the town, and the Mayors thing. More-so everyone building in a town together. I personally build what I want with what I want where I want. I don't like strict towns with strict mayors saying ">:u Your house doesn't match the theme/those mats are ugly/it's too SMALL it's too BIIIIIG. " While I've never had a Mayor yell at me for such a thing, I don't want one yelling at me for it. If I want to build a dock-house near the town, on a river, I should be able to. If i want to build a sky-home close to the town but not over because considerate of height, I should be able to. If I want to build a damn mansion on a hill, well dern it I should be able to. (No, I don't build dirt-block houses in the middle of a plain. I take pride in what I build.) This is why I have never really participated in big towns in the past 2 survival worlds I was part of.
That, and another word that gets thrown around a lot. PvP. I'm all for consensual pvp as much as the next guy, but I don't want the server, if it ever becomes a thing, turn into the butthurt fest that I've seen happening on Theo's vanilla server. I dislike being targeted because I'm part of the same town as a guy that has some argument with another guy. That, or stalked outside my town by some bored, powerful player, waiting for someone to leave the town to murder them. This is why I've never been on Theo's server. This is also why I am a loner in survival maps.
I do not want to worry about my stuff being stolen, or my home being ransacked/claimed whilst I am away from the town. Even more-so someone destroying my stuff because it was 'in their way of their future building plan', and I am nowhere near their house. Or, being constrained past the decency/I was here first clause of minecraft/t9k servers. A community town that is being purposed here would be a mishmash of different ideas and build-forms. Birch wood and sandstone on one side of the road, nether brick and end stone on the other side. Build and survive, mine and thrive, occasionally beating the crap out of each other in events/setting disputes/bets. If you wanna fight, challenge a dude. He doesn't want to fight, go to the next guy. Make a bet, do something. Don't just go after Joe Shmoe because he is a mild acquaintance of Bob Billy Blue.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
A reunion server based of T9k's 'glory' days sounds great. A server with a white-list to stop arsemunchers from coming in and doing the same thing that happened to the 'Glory' days server would be even better. However, the town, and the Mayors thing. More-so everyone building in a town together. I personally build what I want with what I want where I want. I don't like strict towns with strict mayors saying ">:u Your house doesn't match the theme/those mats are ugly/it's too SMALL it's too BIIIIIG. " While I've never had a Mayor yell at me for such a thing, I don't want one yelling at me for it. If I want to build a dock-house near the town, on a river, I should be able to. If i want to build a sky-home close to the town but not over because considerate of height, I should be able to. If I want to build a damn mansion on a hill, well dern it I should be able to. (No, I don't build dirt-block houses in the middle of a plain. I take pride in what I build.) This is why I have never really participated in big towns in the past 2 survival worlds I was part of.
That, and another word that gets thrown around a lot. PvP. I'm all for consensual pvp as much as the next guy, but I don't want the server, if it ever becomes a thing, turn into the butthurt fest that I've seen happening on Theo's vanilla server. I dislike being targeted because I'm part of the same town as a guy that has some argument with another guy. That, or stalked outside my town by some bored, powerful player, waiting for someone to leave the town to murder them. This is why I've never been on Theo's server. This is also why I am a loner in survival maps.
I do not want to worry about my stuff being stolen, or my home being ransacked/claimed whilst I am away from the town. Even more-so someone destroying my stuff because it was 'in their way of their future building plan', and I am nowhere near their house. Or, being constrained past the decency/I was here first clause of minecraft/t9k servers. A community town that is being purposed here would be a mishmash of different ideas and build-forms. Birch wood and sandstone on one side of the road, nether brick and end stone on the other side. Build and survive, mine and thrive, occasionally beating the crap out of each other in events/setting disputes/bets. If you wanna fight, challenge a dude. He doesn't want to fight, go to the next guy. Make a bet, do something. Don't just go after Joe Shmoe because he is a mild acquaintance of Bob Billy Blue.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
thee_pro
Well-Known Member
Oh the memories you have brought back to me of the days of Sparta, with my mansion on the cliffside.
Kris
Well-Known Member
Highrise
Active Member
There's something we all need to be very wary of. There's a difference between loading up an old world, even in and old version, or adopting an old system, and playing it for the first time. Do not expect to experience the same feelings you had in the "glory days." Hope to make some good and lasting memories, sure.
BaloneyPony
Well-Known Member
I'm with ya on this idea however, the requested safe zone isn't a necessary idea. Hobotown ran fine without protection you just need lwc to prevent item thievery. People just need to be smart on where they build a settlement and how well they protect it.
TheGurw
Well-Known Member
Kris
Well-Known Member
Using LWC to protect something is like using a chastity belt with an "Insert here" sign.