Are we free?

Tai_K_Yagami said:
The term you bring up as free is abstract and in many ways is elusive to the imagination. As fascinating as it may sound, freedom can range from different aspects including religion, government, culture, and even individuality alone. What do you set your mind as? Do you "free" yourself from your character or personal demons? From my viewpoint, to question freedom is to wrap around the idea that it is a universal concept. However, far from it. Honestly, I cannot give you a solid answer without questioning further. In fact, what defines freedom in one aspect?
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You, sir, are the best necromancer in the history of ever.
 
We're all free to do as we please.

I'd say we are pretty free. If we weren't free then I wouldn't be typing right now because I wasn't free to do so.

I dunno.
 
We aren't truely free, our actions and thoughts are bound by stupid things called "reality and possibility."

So, yeah.

No.
 
Kris19642 said:
You, sir, are the best necromancer in the history of ever.
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Honestly, I think that revisiting some of the old threads does not take away from the relevancy of the matter. In my point of view, it would help to enhance matters on different threads to show variation and witness careful thoughts buzz about it. It doesn't matter if the thread is old or whatever "old" may be as for some people, but as long as the thread is there, not closed, or locked, I will get every ounce of what I can from it.
Only because a thread appears months or years old, that doesn't make it any less relevant. I look to the relevancy of the content, not its date.
 
Serenity595 said:
freedom1.jpg


What is freedom? Is humanity truly free? Do we have a free will? What limits or binds us?
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are we starting some red pill shit, because if so im out
 
Of course we're not truly free, we can't get everything we want at the snap of a finger, nor we can't do anything we want without being judged or just simply not being able to do so.

So I guess that answers the question! :D
 
I believe the term "freedom" is defined differently from culture to culture. You can't just explain it the way you think it is, there will always be someone who has another opinion.
 
Freedom is an illusion of man set by our society.

We didn't choose to be geeks, nerd, or gamers. Something made us that. Everything that happens in our lives has a beginning and a logical reasoning behind it.
Although, freedom does exist. It is possible. But you can't do it without becoming clinically insane or becoming dirt poor. The "comfortable" life you're living right now isn't full of freedom. You can't spend money on whatever you want, rather what's laid of you to choose. And most of us are happy with the thought of "freedom of choice" in our head while we go throughout life. There's a set of rules we have to follow and those set of rules will always determine who we are, what we do, and how we go about to achieve "happiness" in life.

There is no such thing as freedom in our society. Unless you're on another planet, in a free religion (for example Buddhist monks), or dead, you'll never be free. It's just a fact you have to face. And if you don't, your life here will be worse tenfold. But it's at least good to know that it does exist. Although, I will say this. Giving freedom to people isn't necessarily good. The only reason why you're not allowed to kill someone is not because you're doing something the government is restricting, but because it's morally incorrect. With freedom comes uncivilized ways of being, and through that comes chaos. We have to limit ourselves to prevent this from happening. And because of that we're happy on the society we stand on. It's just a matter of what you do and what you feel is right, that determines your side on the "thought" of freedom. I don't have problem with not being fully free, because of the problems as I've said earlier. I'd rather be happy and alive than fighting and dead.
 
Flaunty said:
Freedom is an illusion of man set by our society.

We didn't choose to be geeks, nerd, or gamers. Something made us that. Everything that happens in our lives has a beginning and a logical reasoning behind it.
Although, freedom does exist. It is possible. But you can't do it without becoming clinically insane or becoming dirt poor. The "comfortable" life you're living right now isn't full of freedom. You can't spend money on whatever you want, rather what's laid of you to choose. And most of us are happy with the thought of "freedom of choice" in our head while we go throughout life. There's a set of rules we have to follow and those set of rules will always determine who we are, what we do, and how we go about to achieve "happiness" in life.

There is no such thing as freedom in our society. Unless you're on another planet, in a free religion (for example Buddhist monks), or dead, you'll never be free. It's just a fact you have to face. And if you don't, your life here will be worse tenfold. But it's at least good to know that it does exist. Although, I will say this. Giving freedom to people isn't necessarily good. The only reason why you're not allowed to kill someone is not because you're doing something the government is restricting, but because it's morally incorrect. With freedom comes uncivilized ways of being, and through that comes chaos. We have to limit ourselves to prevent this from happening. And because of that we're happy on the society we stand on. It's just a matter of what you do and what you feel is right, that determines your side on the "thought" of freedom. I don't have problem with not being fully free, because of the problems as I've said earlier. I'd rather be happy and alive than fighting and dead.
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I agree with your concept of freedom being somewhat a negative thing. If by freedom, you may mean the idea of being in a state of nature where anarchy rules and frankly, humans aren't cut out for anarchy in general. People tend to be social and desire some form of order. Thus, freedom, as you say, can be found in the solace of our own home rather than from expecting it as something that is significant beyond unearthly imaginings of it. Freedom can be found even when you live within society. Personally, freedom is how you make it out to be.

Fate vs. Free Will​
Aside from this though, what about free will? Is one bound to a life circumscribed if our own thoughts dictate our very lives? Are you destined by a predetermined outline of life. Clearly, there is a certain amount that we are limited to perform physically and mentally. We are born of certain skills and faculties and you are governed by expectation of society, and ultimately by what certain environmental conditions surround you. With all of this taken into regards, the question is do you really have a choice living in these boundaries? Boundaries even including the mind itself rather. Do you follow your mind upon certain understanding that it is free will that you endeavor after some goal in life, or is it inevitably destiny that leads you there and that what you're surrounded by determines all this for you?
 
A perfect allegory from a book that would kind of represent the first part would be Lord of the Flies. If you haven't read the book in middle school or high school, then watch this for a good summary while laughing your ass off.

As for the second part, I'm not so sure what you're trying to say. Our lives aren't spread out for us. Well, my view on it doesn't agree with either free will or fate. There are restrictions that set your "fate" in life, but your choices will always differ because of a small portion of free will. I believe in randomness in life. There are many examples such as hinduism with reincarnation and probability in mathematics. There's always going to be a set of restrictions, a fate, and there's always going to be a choice of direction to approach it. The coming events determine your path in life. We can either take the restrictions of man being too small and too fragile to face space to explore and not do it, or we can choose to over come those physical obstacles with our mind. But, we do all have limits. Quantum Physics still can't be fully understood, we just know it works. I think Physical barriers are nothing to mankind, but our mental capacity is the problem. We're constantly overcoming this every day. History has proven we've overcome mental obstacles we do not know how to solve, but radically and randomly find an answer for. Although, we're always going to have something to push and do better, and honestly, we'll never have a limit for what the human race can mentally achieve. I think our extinction, when we finally stop thinking, will mark that.
 
Flaunty said:
A perfect allegory from a book that would kind of represent the first part would be Lord of the Flies. If you haven't read the book in middle school or high school, then watch this for a good summary while laughing your ass off.

As for the second part, I'm not so sure what you're trying to say. Our lives aren't spread out for us. Well, my view on it doesn't agree with either free will or fate. There are restrictions that set your "fate" in life, but your choices will always differ because of a small portion of free will. I believe in randomness in life. There are many examples such as hinduism with reincarnation and probability in mathematics. There's always going to be a set of restrictions, a fate, and there's always going to be a choice of direction to approach it. The coming events determine your path in life. We can either take the restrictions of man being too small and too fragile to face space to explore and not do it, or we can choose to over come those physical obstacles with our mind. But, we do all have limits. Quantum Physics still can't be fully understood, we just know it works. I think Physical barriers are nothing to mankind, but our mental capacity is the problem. We're constantly overcoming this every day. History has proven we've overcome mental obstacles we do not know how to solve, but radically and randomly find an answer for. Although, we're always going to have something to push and do better, and honestly, we'll never have a limit for what the human race can mentally achieve. I think our extinction, when we finally stop thinking, will mark that.
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First thing, entropy, second, yeah, the book made me pretty upset :p

Funny thoughts aside, will the decisions you make wherein "directions" are placed for you determine that you're in control of the situation as you choose and not vice versa? Like a maze given to you, does each step you make already have a path before you enter it, or do you create the maze as you go? is what I'm trying to say.
 
Tai_K_Yagami said:
First thing, entropy, second, yeah, the book made me pretty upset :p

Funny thoughts aside, will the decisions you make wherein "directions" are placed for you determine that you're in control of the situation as you choose and not vice versa? Like a maze given to you, does each step you make already have a path before you enter it, or do you create the maze as you go? is what I'm trying to say.
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I think it's more of process than a laid out scheme for you. Although the paths have been laid out for you. Again, really, it's both.

In a simple way: We're given a situation with 4 different starting points. Those starting points are blank and all different, but similar in a way. One by one, we start collecting materials around us to build a road to get to the end of the point. What we choose to do with those materials is not fate, but free will and can radically change. Through this, you have both Fate and Free Will. This isn't fate because the paths you can make with the material are infinity. But this isn't free will because you didn't choose where to start. Instead, it's a combination of both that relies on randomness of both choice and beginnings.

Edit: Those choices are free and random. No one's forcing you to do anything, but rather setting a parameter and gives you unlimited supplies to achieve this.

Also, fate is predetermined and absolute of one. The "choices" I'm giving you aren't.
 
Flaunty said:
I think it's more of process than a laid out scheme for you. Although the paths have been laid out for you. Again, really, it's both.

In a simple way: We're given a situation with 4 different starting points. Those starting points are blank and all different, but similar in a way. One by one, we start collecting materials around us to build a road to get to the end of the point. What we choose to do with those materials is not fate, but free will and can radically change. Through this, you have both Fate and Free Will. This isn't fate because the paths you can make with the material are infinity. But this isn't free will because you didn't choose where to start. Instead, it's a combination of both that relies on randomness of both choice and beginnings.

Edit: Those choices are free and random. No one's forcing you to do anything, but rather setting a parameter and gives you unlimited supplies to achieve this.

Also, fate is predetermined and absolute of one. The "choices" I'm giving you aren't.
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Meh. I don't if you've read Macbeth before but the book heavily emphasizes if it be fate or free will that we walk our lives on. I think we can keep debating if this is so or not. I guarantee we're running on thin ice here because as we continue to discuss this, ideas will beg on different stance as my point of view differs from yours. I'm not entirely certain, maybe fate and freewill do coincide to make us the humans that we are to decide under governing. Maybe it's not and that one absolute choice or absolute fate exist independently from another and under conditions met, free will can take shape or fate based on a pressured world will influence thought of mind. It all depends on point of view I guess. I'm not sure anymore \_o_o_/
 
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