Space Colonization

[Serenity595]

Sun becoming a red giant? Oh man you have so many more things to worry about. As the suns luminosity increases 99% of your plant life will die away, this will happen 600 to 700 millions years from now. Also with increasing luminosity (1 billion years at most) water will boil away. Radiation from the sun will break apart bonds of 2 Hydrogens from 1 Oxygen (water vapor in the atmosphere) creating gas. These gases (hydrogen and oxygen) will escape into space, so no more water. You also have to consider probability, specifically probability that a meteor 1 km in diametere will collide with the earth causing some sort of extinctions, in a span of millions of years, it's going to happen, the question is when.

Also as the sun grows in size you have to consider maybe mercury will collide with venus, causing incredible chaos in the inner solar system, pieces of planets fucking flying everywhere, possibly hitting Earth.

When the sun does become a red giant, there is a possiblity that the moon Titan might be able to support life.

Also in 7 to 8 billion years the Milky Way and Andromeda Galaxy will collide.

So on and so forth, shit gets pretty depressing later on with the increase of entropy, assuming humans survive many billions of years stars will start to burn up, get farther apart (universe expansion), and energy will be harder to find. Elements will decay to iron, organization will be harder and harder to find, etc.

I hadn't even heard of proton decay, do they decay? That would be depressing.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

The Earth is pretty much a goner, although the dwarf planet Eris looks like a promising second home. All of the dwarf planets past Pluto would melt their ice into water (without being completely vaporized) and would become a viable source for survival once the Red giant is near its last phase.

Currently, what mankind needs to be wary about is not their potential destruction by the cosmos, but their potential to destroy themselves.

Also, I looked into the hypothetical form of radioactive decay known as "proton decay". According to current evidence and our knowledge of physics, protons would remain theoretically stable because they would not decay into other particles on their own because they are themselves the lightest subatomic particles we know of.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

Greenearth and Serenity on the same thread? Shit just got real.

 

[StTheo]

The Earth is pretty much a goner, although the dwarf planet Eris looks like a promising second home. All of the dwarf planets past Pluto would melt their ice into water (without being completely vaporized) and would become a viable source for survival once the Red giant is near its last phase.

Currently, what mankind needs to be wary about is not their potential destruction by the cosmos, but their potential to destroy themselves.

Also, I looked into the hypothetical form of radioactive decay known as "proton decay". According to current evidence and our knowledge of physics, protons would remain theoretically stable because they would not decay into other particles on their own because they are themselves the lightest subatomic particles we know of.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay

I'm not sure the end of the universe is something to worry about. We're a bright species - a few billion years is more than enough to find some genius solution to delay it.

 

[Serenity595]

You can't delay the inevitable.

Anyway, I'm not worrying about it; I'm just wondering what mankind could do if they were ever in that situation. Also, it's fun to explore the psychology as to why mankind would act a certain way in a doomsday event.

For example, would man be more likely (with the available technology) to have a fight or flight response in the event of our Sun turning into a Red giant? Would we try and survive on the dwarf planets past Pluto or would we just get the heck out of the solar system?

 

[GreenEarth]

interesting thread on space travel and colonization
http://boards.4chan.org/sci/res/4314358#4315257

ignore shit posts
read before it 404's although /sci/ threads take a while to 404

 

[Mariolink42]

I can't believe people like you exist on this forum who would just try to insult someone's research and hard work being put into this thread with an image macro.

If you can't say anything that contributes to the topic at hand (which is obviously meant to be scholarly discussion) then keep refrain from replying.

This is the same reaction that people had to airplanes and claims that the earth was round. Look at the world now.

Isn't that the badass meme?

I was calling him a badass in a good way. ._.

Unless i have the wrong meme, or that meme is used for too many insults it wasn't fit, if that's the case, sorry. Im just amazed at this guy's intelligence.

I think i'm just going to back away from this thread slowly now...

 

[xHallucinationx]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Jupiter is inhospitable to man. It has gravity that is about 2.5x what we have on earth. Humans would have a VERY difficult time there. Our bodies are not build for gravity that strong. A 150 pound man on earth would weigh 375 pounds on Jupiter. That would be like if you had a 225 pound man riding on your back here on earth all day every day. Not only that, but the average temperature on Jupiter is -240 Fahrenheit. Idk about you, but I am happy nice and toasty in my 70 F living room.

Simple. We don't bring 90% of America. (No calling me racist I live there) Anyways, I never presumed my comment to be a worthy of debate comment, just another regular witty comment.

 

[katphish]

Isn't that the badass meme?

I was calling him a badass in a good way. ._.

Unless i have the wrong meme, or that meme is used for too many insults it wasn't fit, if that's the case, sorry. Im just amazed at this guy's intelligence.

I think i'm just going to back away from this thread slowly now...

Usually the badass meme is meant in a sarcastic manner to demean other people but if you really didn't mean it... stay on this thread

 

[DerDo]

I like the idea of space colonization, but I don't think it will ever happen the way we (Humanity) would like to see it. I think far before we manage to get to the point to move many people from earth to other planets and to make the spacial orbit of a planet or its surface inhabitable, we'll run out of material and resources to do so. I think we should try to solve our totally resource reliable addiction probleme before we start to move the problems to another place. First things first
Anyway, if there is a time and way we manage this (maybe in another 100,000 years if we even survive for so long without destroying ourselves and the whole planet), it would be very intersting.... though still hard to manage due to the circumstances.... (or however written XD).
Our moon isn't good enough to live on, we would need to technologize the whole thing to be able to live on it.... maybe it's more worth in an industrial way, I once heard of something that theres something in the ground or sand on the moon which could be used for example, fuel for space traveling... but wwhatever

Mercury and Venus, hot hot and hot, all over the place, no thanks, I don't like places with tooo much heat, toxic surroundings and vulcanic activities.

MArs would be nice... red... stony, and maybe inhabitable after hundred years of work moving material to the planet to change the surface and so on XD

Jupiter: sorry no idea, noone really knows how big this thing really is ( I mean the ground you can actually stand on), theres all gas over the place, not to mention the gravity, stroms, astroids coliding into it and this theorized tornado thing which is 2 times bigger than earth if I remember right from a book.... thanks no.

Uranus.... Dont have to explain do I?! XD

Saturn, Neptune, and hey wasnt Pluto once in too? and then not, and then again, and then not, and then again,... and.... well wtf, is Pluto now part of the solar system or not, someone decide already XD



Anyway: Space colonization is a nice idea, bu really, I'm not very optimistic to that one, sorry.

 

[Serenity595]

Isn't that the badass meme?

I was calling him a badass in a good way. ._.

Unless i have the wrong meme, or that meme is used for too many insults it wasn't fit, if that's the case, sorry. Im just amazed at this guy's intelligence.

I think i'm just going to back away from this thread slowly now...

I don't know about the other guys, but that meme you posted was the best laugh I had all day.

Wait, are you sure that's right? I'm almost positive (no pun intended) protons are not subatomic particles, and they are certainly not the least massive - a proton has about the same mass as a neutron, and 1836 times the mass of an electron. Also, protons already decay into other particles on their own during radioactive decay, otherwise known as positron emission.

Maybe you're right. I don't know. Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source of information.

 

[Serenity595]

Mercury and Venus, hot hot and hot, all over the place, no thanks, I don't like places with tooo much heat, toxic surroundings and vulcanic activities.

Sarcasm aside,

we need to look at the bigger picture. Mercury could generate tons of energy to power spaceships and interstellar travel while Venus could be that "in-between" base for stopping and refueling, I guess. The base would probably be in orbit though, unless we could possibly terraform the planet???

 

[lacar1601]

An online article I found brings together several scholarly journals that detail the research done to find, among other things, the chemical makeup of Mercury and its temperature differences. It makes the arguement that a long-term colony on Mercury is actually more feasible than one on Mars!

To summarize, a mathematical study supported by numerical techniques show that there are actually underground regions on Mercury where the temperature stays at room temperature (295K) constantly. These underground regions were found to exist on an elliptical ring 21 km thick surrounding the poles such that the extent of the major and minor axes lie on 52 degrees and 75 degrees latitude respectfully (as I sketched in the diagram below). How far underground to you need to go to get to this temperature? Grab a shovel, because you only need to dig less than 1 meter to get to it. LESS THAN A METER!!! How awesome is that!

If water really is present on Mercury, then the maintenance of a vegetative ecosystem is plausible. Since Mercury recieves intense light from the sun, there will be no shortage of solar power. A spectroscope on the Messenger mission detected the presence of high concentrations of medium elements, including Mg, Fe, Si, and Ca. Question is, does Mercury have any of the lighter elements (carbon, nitrogen, sodium) needed for plant nutrition?

 

[GreenEarth]

Anyway: Space colonization is a nice idea, bu really, I'm not very optimistic to that one, sorry.

Wait, are you sure that's right? I'm almost positive (no pun intended) protons are not subatomic particles

Indeed they are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton

Also, protons already decay into other particles on their own during radioactive decay, otherwise known as positron emission.

You are mixing things up, positron emission happens when an up quark changes into a down quark, turning a proton into a neutron, as you stated before a neutron and proton have almost the exact same mass, so this decay does not involve a loss of mass.

In proton decay a proton decays into lighter subatomic, thus mass is lost, this type of decay is hypothetical and has not been observed, as I've read that the half life would be 10^30 years or something. (1 Nonillion Years 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)

 

[Serenity595]

An online article I found brings together several scholarly journals that detail the research done to find, among other things, the chemical makeup of Mercury and its temperature differences. It makes the arguement that a long-term colony on Mercury is actually more feasible than one on Mars!

To summarize, a mathematical study supported by numerical techniques show that there are actually underground regions on Mercury where the temperature stays at room temperature (295K) constantly. These underground regions were found to exist on an elliptical ring 21 km thick surrounding the poles such that the extent of the major and minor axes lie on 52 degrees and 75 degrees latitude respectfully (as I sketched in the diagram below). How far underground to you need to go to get to this temperature? Grab a shovel, because you only need to dig less than 1 meter to get to it. LESS THAN A METER!!! How awesome is that!

View attachment 88980

If water really is present on Mercury, then the maintenance of a vegetative ecosystem is plausible. Since Mercury recieves intense light from the sun, there will be no shortage of solar power. A spectroscope on the Messenger mission detected the presence of high concentrations of medium elements, including Mg, Fe, Si, and Ca. Question is, does Mercury have any of the lighter elements (carbon, nitrogen, sodium) needed for plant nutrition?

Mercury is just looking better and better!

I'll try and do some research on your question about the presence of lighter elements on Mercury.

 

[Serenity595]

Question is, does Mercury have any of the lighter elements (carbon, nitrogen, sodium) needed for plant nutrition?

"Mercury is too small and hot for its gravity to retain any significant atmosphere over long periods of time; it does have a "tenuous surface-bounded exosphere"[58] containing hydrogen, helium, oxygen, sodium, calcium, potassium and others. This exosphere is not stable—atoms are continuously lost and replenished from a variety of sources. Hydrogen and helium atoms probably come from the solar wind, diffusing into Mercury’s magnetosphere before later escaping back into space. Radioactive decay of elements within Mercury’s crust is another source of helium, as well as sodium and potassium. MESSENGER found high proportions of calcium, helium, hydroxide, magnesium, oxygen, potassium, silicon and sodium. Water vapor is present, released by a combination of processes such as: comets striking its surface, sputtering creating water out of hydrogen from the solar wind and oxygen from rock, and sublimation from reservoirs of water ice in the permanently shadowed polar craters. The detection of high amounts of water-related ions like O+, OH-, and H2O+ was a surprise.[59][60] Because of the quantities of these ions that were detected in Mercury's space environment, scientists surmise that these molecules were blasted from the surface or exosphere by the solar wind.[61][62]

"Sodium, potassium and calcium were discovered in the atmosphere during the 1980–1990s, and are believed to result primarily from the vaporization of surface rock struck by micrometeorite impacts.[63] In 2008 magnesium was discovered by MESSENGER probe.[64] Studies indicate that, at times, sodium emissions are localized at points that correspond to the planet's magnetic poles. This would indicate an interaction between the magnetosphere and the planet's surface.[65]"

- Wikipedia

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)

 

[Serenity595]

One potential source of energy is thorium molten-salt reactor. I posted a thread a couple days ago with a fantastic video explaining it all, here. Check it out, it's a definite option for a long-term reliable power source (if you watch the video, thorium MSR's have actually been considered for moon-bases).

Thanks for posting that!

It does look like a promising energy source, especially on planets with less sunlight such as Mars and beyond.

 

[JHawk]

Why the lack of discussion on the Moon, Mars and Saturn's moons?

 

[Serenity595]

I have an interesting question: what is the worst planet or moon that we could possibly colonize with all [of at least the primary] advantages and disadvantages taken into account?

 

[lacar1601]

it does have a "tenuous surface-bounded exosphere"[58] containing hydrogen, helium, oxygen, sodium, calcium, potassium and others.

- Wikipedia

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)

MESSENGER was equiped with several spectrometers that are capable of detecting only certain elements and charged particles on the very surface of Mercury or in its atmosphere. It was not capable of detecting carbon or nitrogen, so that's still under question as far as I'm concerned. Props to it for confirming that there is water on Mercury.

 

[xHallucinationx]

I have an interesting question: what is the worst planet or moon that we could possibly colonize with all [of at least the primary] advantages and disadvantages taken into account?

Either Jupiter or Mars. Both I believe (catch me if I'm wrong) do not have oxygen, and contain harmful to humans gases in their atmospheres.

 

[Serenity595]

MESSENGER was equiped with several spectrometers that are capable of detecting only certain elements and charged particles on the very surface of Mercury or in its atmosphere. It was not capable of detecting carbon or nitrogen, so that's still under question as far as I'm concerned. Props to it for confirming that there is water on Mercury.

I wonder... would Mercury or Venus pose more dangers to a future space colony?

Either Jupiter or Mars. Both I believe (catch me if I'm wrong) do not have oxygen, and contain harmful to humans gases in their atmospheres.

I could understand Jupiter, but Mars is actually quite promising. Also, (correct me if I'm wrong) all of the planets in our solar system have little to no oxygen except, of course, the earth.