The Prostitution Thread - Should Prostitution Be Legal?

[kimbal86]

I'm posting this thread to accommodate the discussion that has arisen in The LGBT Thread in order to avoid that thread being derailed unnecessarily.

The subject of this thread is prostitution and why it should or should not be legal.

Prostitution is legal in Belgium and the Netherlands, it has to be behind closed doors though, so prostitution on the streets is illegal..
Both in Belgium and the Netherlands we have whole streets filled with brothels..

Wow that is really messed up.

Care to quickly explain why? It's a job like any other o.o

It spreads diseases. People could be forced into it. It makes the person look bad.

And that is your problem how?

That's the individual person's decision, not yours.

Just saying.

1) So does holding hands.
2) In a country where it's legalized things like that get monitored
3) That's his/her own decision.

Diseases that can ruin your life and could kill you.
That's good but it can still happen.
Yes and the person will have a bad reputation for it.

 

[Donvittorio]

People who are sick shouldn't be allowed to do any of these jobs and things like that get monitored and regulated. Same applies to for example a cook, I'm pretty sure that when cooks are sick they're not allowed to go to work.
People can be forced into anything, I don't think that murdered people actually asked to be murdered.
A prostitute only has a bad reputation to close-minded people who look down on prostitution

 

[Antecus]

Everything should be a decision made by the person themselves. You want to inject yourself with Heroin? Go head, sooner or later, you'll be no more. You want a deadly disease? Go and get it.

As long as I am not being bothered by these people, I will not care. I've got a few friends whose life is ruined by Drugs. Yes ruined, they never get clean, it is always in month/year phases. They are great people and would do anything to help me, so don't get me wrong.

Same goes with same sex relationships. They don't bother me, so why in the fucking world should I bother them? I got a great example of what recently, or actually will happen again soon. Nearby Town, around 150km from where I live will have a Gay Pride event. The Politicians are going crazy, this is a Catholic country *blah bluh blah* get the hell out. I find this so Idiotic, what did those people ever do that involves harm? All of a sudden every Politician got raped or something?

This event will be bloody, and I do not get why. Just leave every person alone. I hate raisins, so every man eating raisins is an asshole?

-_-

 

[quazymoodo]

Sickness? Drink some water out of any river in America for the same effect.

Force? How about Drugs, Abuse, Theft, Marriage, etc...

Makes a person look bad? That's only how a person looks at it. If they look at it like it's a bad thing (Like you), then you'll think it's a bad thing. If you think it doesn't matter/it's a good thing (like me), then you'll think it's okay.

A person's reputation can be ruined by posting photos from a wild party on facebook...

Besides. Modern-day brothels are run under tight security, where the customers must be checked before having sex. Condoms are also a requirement. The borthels also have their own medical center where prostitutes are given weekly check-ups to check for stds/pregnancy. Her "work area" is also extremely clean (Like 5-star hotel suite clean...)

That's what legalized prostitution is liked. You're thinking about the illegal/criminalized version.

That means pimps, sex on the streets, lack of protection, rape, gangs, disease, etc.

In other words, you obviously haven't seen/heard of all kinds of prostitution. For prostitutes, it's a nice way/proud way to live, it pays well, it's an enjoyable occupation, etc.

Fun fact: Up until the 1910s, Christian churches owned many brothels and cathouses. Prostitution is considered the "World's Oldest Profession"...

 

[MrFrog90]

Raisin eating arseholes.

Back to topic:
Its not the matter of opened or closed mindedness of individuals but the society as a whole. Prostitution has been shunned apon by elder generations and has been passed on to the next generation and so on. Social norms are what decides the perception of what is a reputable occupation and the law too. For example, same sex marriage are gradually being accepted into the society because of the social norm that says that gays have equal right and all that. If prostitutes are to maintain a good reputation in the society, its the society's perception that has to change.

 

[oozinator]

I'm worried about the possible abuses of such a system.

The problem points could occur in licensing, enforcement, and loopholes. In impoverished areas, this could be seen as an opportunity for anyone to make a quick buck to get out of debt, so we might see the opening of many quick startup brothels and their closure some months later. Because these brothels would only exist for a brief time, health and safety regulations might be set aside (since there will be an inevitable delay in code enforcement) for purposes of profit.

In my state, we sort of have that problem with medicinal marijuana dispensiaries. Once medicinal marijuana became legal for sale in specialized pharmacies, a whole bunch of dispensiaries opened up. However, the quality of weed and the types of customers they served weren't really screened by the State. Customers could be ripped off by being sold terrible/unsafe product and dispensiaries might try to broaden their consumer base illegally (like to the uninfirm) because law enforcement is behind.

I fear the same would happen for prostitution.

 

[Hawke]

There are a small number of countries and regions which actually legalized and regulate prostitution. I once read an AMA from a New Zealand prostitute which described the heavy health regulations and policies, which involved obligatory use of condoms in ANY services and monthly control for health problems. She also stated that she chose the profession voluntarily. Health concerns can be eliminated out of the equation when legalization involves regulation.
In a regulated environment, prostitutes get the right of choice and other basic rights they are stripped down of when working illegally. Heck, most of the problems people see in prostitution come from it's relation to criminal activity in general, which usually involves force and violation of rights. So when you legalize something, you can cut off the criminal element, or make it easier to spot it by having special departments to which you can address the issues without being arrested for participating or being a customer.

Arguments like "sex should be involved only when two people have a relationship/are married" are not relevant. People should have the choice, and afaik one-night-stands aren't illegal yet.

 

[Hawke]

I'm worried about the possible abuses of such a system.

The problem points could occur in licensing, enforcement, and loopholes. In impoverished areas, this could be seen as an opportunity for anyone to make a quick buck to get out of debt, so we might see the opening of many quick startup brothels and their closure some months later. Because these brothels would only exist for a brief time, health and safety regulations might be set aside (since there will be an inevitable delay in code enforcement) for purposes of profit.

In my state, we sort of have that problem with medicinal marijuana dispensiaries. Once medicinal marijuana became legal for sale in specialized pharmacies, a whole bunch of dispensiaries opened up. However, the quality of weed and the types of customers they served weren't really screened by the State. Customers could be ripped off by being sold terrible/unsafe product and dispensiaries might try to broaden their consumer base illegally (like to the uninfirm) because law enforcement is behind.

I fear the same would happen for prostitution.

The same loopholes can be exploited in ANY type of activity, leading to poor quality products and consumer/worker right infringements, no matter if it's sale of marijuana or a brothel or the burger stand down the street.

 

[Wooty]

Once medicinal marijuana became legal for sale in specialized pharmacies, a whole bunch of dispensiaries opened up. However, the quality of weed and the types of customers they served weren't really screened by the State. Customers could be ripped off by being sold terrible/unsafe product and dispensiaries might try to broaden their consumer base illegally (like to the uninfirm) because law enforcement is behind.

Before medicinal marijuana became legal for sale in specialized pharmacies, a whole bunch of dealers opened up. However, the quality of weed and the types of customers they served weren't screened by the State. Customers could be ripped off by being sold terrible/unsafe product and dealers broaden their consumer base illegally (like to the uninfirm) because law enforcement is behind.

fixed

 

[oozinator]

The same loopholes can be exploited in ANY type of activity, leading to poor quality products and consumer/worker right infringements, no matter if it's sale of marijuana or a brothel or the burger stand down the street.

True, but prostitution (compared with other types of work) has immediate, long-term health and safety ramifications beyond its employees and has minimal start-up costs. Low initial investment means more start-ups, which means more inevitable violations than most other industry. More violations, of course, means greater risk to the public.

I sort of see it as a public health issue. You could make a comparison to the porn industry, but the public is not really at risk as much from health violations in porn because sexual contact remains in a closed group. Also porn agencies do not shy away from health screens because they deal with a limited number of regular employees whose medical histories are well known to employers. They would be easy to insure. Brothels, on the other hand, would have to screen regulars and irregulars, and insurance would be quite more expensive.

 

[Hawke]

True, but prostitution (compared with other types of work) has immediate, long-term health and safety ramifications beyond its employees and has minimal start-up costs. Low initial investment means more start-ups, which means more inevitable violations than most other industry. More violations, of course, means greater risk to the public.

I sort of see it as a public health issue. You could make a comparison to the porn industry, but the public is not really at risk as much from health violations in porn because sexual contact remains in a closed group. Also porn agencies do not shy away from health screens because they deal with a limited number of regular employees whose medical histories are well known to employers. They would be easy to insure. Brothels, on the other hand, would have to screen regulars and irregulars, and insurance would be quite more expensive.

Once again, what stops a one-day burger stand sell malaria infected burgers, or a small business sell irradiated couches and provoke butt cancer to anyone sitting on it. There are many quick start-up businesses. If the place looks shady you probably wouldn't wave your dick anywhere near it because you can figure out it's a deathtrap. If there was enough time for the illegal activity to establish and make itself look legit, then the government has failed.

 

[oozinator]

fixed

I actually should mention that I remember reading somewhere that it was the labs responsible for testing weed that had been fudging/improperly calculating their purity numbers. (The same sample was sent to different labs, and purity numbers were all over the place.) I will edit this thread once I get the source.

Legalizing something shifts the type of violation from one to another. Illicit activity is like a big leak but in a confined area (serious problem, few involved), while code violations are small leaks but it floods out in the open. Small leaks are minor but can turn into big ones if not dealt with promptly.

Found it! http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/12/local/la-me-adv-pot-labs-20120212

 

[oozinator]

Once again, what stops a one-day burger stand sell malaria infected burgers, or a small business sell irradiated couches and provoke butt cancer to anyone sitting on it. We usually avoid shady places if they seem suspicious.

Malaria cannot infect burgers (blood-borne transmission) and irradiated couches... well, I guess if shop is set up near a huge natural source of radon, it's plausible.

Most of the risks of these things happening are highly unlikely, relative to a busted condom.

EDIT: I should mention though that I would think twice before eating a burger injected with malaria-tainted blood (whether pre-cooked or post-cooked). It's just something inherently unsanitary about that. But there was that whole deal with mad cow disease in Britain and the possibility that it might be related to human CJD. The US decided that rather than run the risk of a few CJD deaths, it would stop beef imports from the UK.

 

[Patchouli]

Even without prostitution being legal, the same "public health problems" happen with people that just sleep around. Afraid of an STD? Don't do someone 5 minutes after you meet. Keep the sex to relationships where you know the person isn't like that. And I don't mean "Oh we've been dating for a week, let's fuck!", I mean actually find out the kind of person they are.

 

[kimbal86]

Even without prostitution being legal, the same "public health problems" happen with people that just sleep around. Afraid of an STD? Don't do someone 5 minutes after you meet. Keep the sex to relationships where you know the person isn't like that. And I don't mean "Oh we've been dating for a week, let's fuck!", I mean actually find out the kind of person they are.

That's a good point. I mean, how many people in the Western world are promiscuous in general these days? How many people catch STDs from sleeping around? Yet there's no law against sleeping around, or having sex outside of marriage.

In fact, we're assuming that prostitutes are a source of STDs, but where do they catch them from? People who sleep around, maybe? I don't know.

In any case it's clear that prohibition doesn't prevent prositution.

And what of the escort industy? Lets not make the mistake of assuming that prostitution is just something that happens on the streets in seedy neighbourhoods. Escorting is just prostitution by a different name, except one might expect someone selling their services as an escort to charge much higher rates and be much more choosy about whose custom they accept.

It's not uncommon for the very wealthy in society to pay hundreds, or even thousands of dollars for the company of a high-class escort. This is still prostitution.

 

[oozinator]

Even without prostitution being legal, the same "public health problems" happen with people that just sleep around. Afraid of an STD? Don't do someone 5 minutes after you meet. Keep the sex to relationships where you know the person isn't like that. And I don't mean "Oh we've been dating for a week, let's fuck!", I mean actually find out the kind of person they are.

I give you that, Patch. One night-stands are probably a greater public health risk than prostitution.

Though someone would have to be a HUGE slut (forgive my language) to have the same number of sexual encounters as a prostitute (over the course of a year).

 

[Hawke]

Malaria cannot infect burgers (blood-borne transmission) and irradiated couches... well, I guess if shop is set up near a huge natural source of radon, it's plausible.

Most of the risks of these things happening are highly unlikely, relative to a busted condom.

EDIT: I should mention though that I would think twice before eating a burger injected with malaria-tainted blood (whether pre-cooked or post-cooked). It's just something inherently unsanitary about that. But there was that whole deal with mad cow disease in Britain and the possibility that it might be related to human CJD. The US decided that rather than run the risk of a few CJD deaths, it would stop beef imports from the UK.

There's probably something inherently unsanitary about illegal brothels, too.
And we aren't talking about imports, but of local SERVICES. I was probably wrong in using product analogies. You are setting up all these arguments under the assumption that there WILL be that many loopholes in the legislation, and it would be retarded if there were loopholes which allowed violation of health or human rights. Illegal brothels would still be illegal, and would be acted upon like they are dealt with right now. In your example with marijuana dealers, it's not a case of complete legalization. We are observing a case when the drug isn't freely available in legal form, forcing people to buy it from illegal spots.

 

[Casham]

I'm a prostitute and I support this thread!

 

[Antecus]

I'm a prostitute and I support this thread!

Suc etna, mah sac!

 

[oozinator]

There's probably something inherently unsanitary about illegal brothels, too.
And we aren't talking about imports, but of local SERVICES. I was probably wrong in using product analogies. You are setting up all these arguments under the assumption that there WILL be that many loopholes in the legislation, and it would be retarded if there were loopholes which allowed violation of health or human rights. Illegal brothels would still be illegal, and would be acted upon like they are dealt with right now. In your example with marijuana dealers, it's not a case of complete legalization. We are observing a case when the drug isn't freely available in legal form, forcing people to buy it from illegal spots.

Well, in some ways, it can still be "import" (human trafficking). Women from impoverished countries being misled with promises of easy work and so forth.

I think what you're getting at is that not legalizing prostitution would be more unsanitary because only illegal, unregulated services would be available. But that's if customers of illegal and legal prostitution would be the same in number, which I guarantee would not be the case. I think few people would need sexual relief that badly that they would commit a crime, spend money, and run the extremely high risk of STDs, instead of taking action in their own hands (literally).

But as I said in reply to Woot's post, it's really about what kind of problem you want: big leak, confined versus small leaks, open area. We can go back and forth on this all day. In truth, the crux of the "leak" comparison I made relies on a numbers game, which is pointless if nobody procures actual data.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong, but neither does it mean I'm right. I just wanted to offer another view, and I gotta say this has been a rather interesting thread.