• You're viewing the Team9000 Archives. These old threads are closed to new comments, but if something interests you or you have a question, feel free to open a new thread in the main forums.

Ranks: An editorial by Crane

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wooty said:
From experience watching others, building with cuboid only leads to more partially used huge areas of cleared land, and giant square buildings with giant walls.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, you have all made your point.

Although I still think there should be a higher ranking builder style rank.
 
Possably a system of parallel ranks that have the capabilities of the other equivalent ranks, but not the full responsability to use them. Or, a mod rank for those wanting to moderate. with ranks higher.


On a side note, now that gold's back, it's a lot easier to get promoted now. (Esp since he has piles of promos to do, and can't be too pickey right now)
 
came out all wonkey.

lol


fail.

I should go back to the syma s107g rc helicopter forum before I make myself look more like an idiot.
 
Lots of good posts good ideas good thread crane however here's my take :)
Mine craft is a game about building and having fun
But for me I like building I like having fun ... But I'd like some responsibilte I'm not begging for a rank.
I feel like I am mature hard working and would definitely like to help out u guys but I feel it takes to long to
Prove a point. I think of it this way I got just over 100 hours I have never afked that's 4 days out of my life I could have been doing other stuff but instead I chose to help out on this server as best to my builder ability. I don't go around going GREIF every 5 seconds but I just feel like I got 100 hours I know I could take the responsability of engineer it's just so dang hard to get to engineer I don't think mine craft is all about ranks I just feel I could help out the server. Say what u want I'm probably not the only one that thinks this. This is not a I want to be PROMOTED post this is my opinion on me and several other builders
 
Now if u are not in need of engineers etc. I can see why it's so hard to get engineer. Ty for your time
Post below ur take on this
again this is not a I'm winning for engineer post it doesn't matter to me about ranks just I feel I could be of assistance to team9000 but I can't to that with a builder rank:/
 
As you stated in your second post MrBrody, we are not in a large need for engineers. Not only that, but we are well aware of what we look for in people and what we push to promote people for. While you may feel you can handle engineer, that is up to the administrators of the server. We have been doing this for a long time and we are well aware of what makes a good admin. You have to realize, there are hundreds of builders, and Engineer is a moderator rank, even when we DO need people for engineer, we never need more than one or two. You may work hard, but there are a lot of people on here that work hard and push to make the community better. A lot of these people have been doing this for HUNDREDS of hours, and it sucks, but we don't need enough engineers to be able to promote everyone that may or may not be ready for it. While the amount of hours does not matter, if we feel two people have the same chance to make it to engineer, and one has 200 hours more than the other, we will promote the one with the most hours first. There are many people on here that work hard, and some people get promoted with less hours, and others with more hours. As admins, we try to be as fair as possible when promoting the limited few that we can and need to promote, but what comes first is the dedication and trust others have demonstrated. Always keep in mind that even though you may or may not feel like you have demonstrated what is needed to handle engineer, it is up to us admin and not yourself to promote, and it is set by standards from Woot and ourselves, not yourself that we promote by. Also, while you may feel you have put in a lot of time, you are never the only person to feel that way. Again, we push to be as fair as possible, but everyone bottlenecks at builder, and we can not make everyone happy. Sorry if I came off as a douche, but I am just trying to explain it as it is. If any admin has any input, please feel free to say so, and same goes for everyone else.
 
I understand I know theres lots of people with more hours and work just as hard as me also I never said 100 hours was a lot I mean do /info god liberator that's an admin for ya 1000 hours 40 days ! And u didn't sound like a douche I understand but at the same time . ... :/ it sucks I think u guys should go through and see how active the engineers r maybe someone else could take the place Idk but thanks for the reply and ur time
 
We actually keep the engineer ranks active, as anyone that is gone for 4+ weeks is demoted to legendary until they decide to come back
 
Now, I've been thinking...


I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be an Awesome, you know that as well as I do. Humans want higher rank and they want more power, it’s in our blood. Whether it’s got to do with the rank of someone in the military or rank in social society to yes, ranks in a Minecraft Classic Server. And just don’t go on about saying it shouldn't be about the ranks, we’ve heard it all before and it’s pointless. If you have to repete yourself then something’s wrong with what you’re saying. If you want to do that why call them RANKS in the first place and to access that information is by using the command /ranks.

I'm not angry, although you could say my jimmies are rustled, mainly because of this point. Want to know why builders feel angry, frustrated or rustled in situations like these? Because they're builders who see guests turn to awesome’s. Now that might allow gloating rights of saying "I remember back in the day when you couldn't even place water without help" but the newly appointed awesome get the last laugh in the end.

Now, this is all stuff you've heard before. Yes, they're higher rank and yes, they’re builders complaining about not being ranked on a server that is free to play and all you do is place blocks to look like something but hear me out, listen to what I have to say. I've finally figured out why builders complain, because I'm feeling it right now. I forgot who but someone I was a builder with got Engineer and I felt kinda left out, allow me to go into more detail.

Think of it like this, here is Person1. He's a pretty nice guy and people like talking to him. He's a new guest and people are socializing with him he thinks.

"Oh boy, these people are so nice! I can't wait to hang out with them more!"

Then after some hard work he gets cool, he finally has a colour to the game, some form of recognition, he's talking to more and more people, hears about builder chat.

"Oh boy, I wanna be a builder, time to build to get noticed!"

Then guess what, he builds! Big things! Things people like. And after some very hard work he gets builder, then things slow down. The next rank as people have said, it hard to obtain so they kind of just stop and look back, have fun finally, chatting it up with fellow builders, looking back at the guests in front of him. Then, Person2 joins the game, seems to be enjoying himself, having a blast. So Person1 goes over to him, talks to him and is nice to him. Person2 has a blast, sends in a cool rank thread and leaves for the night, Person1 hopes the best for 'em. Then after some sweat and tears Person2 finally gets cool, he goes around giving other guests lava and water and starts talking to everyone, gets to know people.

Person1 then tells him about builder chat, Person2 now seems like he wants to get builder, by trying to build bigger and better things. Finally they get builder rank. It’s a cycle. Now, Person1 and Person2 are Bro's. Builders, building together, having a blast. Then. Person2 Becomes Engineer and Person1 congratulates them... then they get Awesome rank... and Person1 feels left alone.

Because that's what all that's about, loneness. Nobody wants to be alone. Person1 wants to chat with Person2 but since they're almost invisible to them he can't tell if he's on or not. Person2 is always hiding so he hasn't a clue. Because that's the point of all of that, Builders feel left out. Simple as that. Builders feel almost separated from the higher ranks, the fact that Engie+ can see if higher ranks are hiding does not help and I remember from one of one of the promotion reasons what “Welcome to the Team!”

What? Builders aren’t in the team? They aren’t part of the more important community?

So... why bother writing all of this? What's the point you ask? Because it might be something wrong with me… or it might be something wrong with the system, but let me just say this now...

I'M NOT ASKING FOR A NEW RANK​

Simple as that, what I am asking is that Veteran Builders should become Engineers, People who have put massive amounts into the server and gotten to know loads of the people who’s also had the times of their life and shown some form of maturity.

Because through that we can then tell if they’re mature or not for a higher rank, so in most cases… Mature enough for the awesome rank. If you want builders to actually start building instead of them trying to be mini mods, constantly reporting grief and not building. You need the proving grounds to actually be engineer. So that will stop the older builders from complaining, to prove they can handle a higher rank.

Afraid some aren’t ready yet? Just see how they act. See how the think. If you think this builder has built enough for the server, allow them to be able to kick, it will be still… ultimately up to the red-names to see if they’re good enough like always. And if someone does make someone an engineer and they abuse that power or seem to be gloating with it. All they can do is kick, nothing ground shattering or server corrupting. Someone will complain and they’ll be demoted, simple as that.

I'll also like to add that people want to have fun, if people are getting angry in situations like there people aren't having fun. You can't just tell someone HAVE FUN. Because you can't force fun on people. Considering this IMO will bring the fun back for me, if other people suffer the same displeasure and I know they do. It will solve the problem of...

-Builders not building because they're trying to become engies
-Builders getting angry about ranks
-And bringing the fun back to classic for them.

So, that’s what I’ve been thinking, I’ve been articulating this post for a very long time now, it has been on my mind for quite some time now and it’s a relief that I finally got it down and that I finally posted it on the forums.

Wanna TL;DR? Here's one
No new rank, but have the proving grounds for higher ranks actually be engineer so veteran builders can prove themselves for a higher rank and thus, builders actually start building again without having to try and become mini mods and pester higher ranks into banning players for them and seem like they're trying to get a higher rank subtly.​
 
Beese said:
Now, I've been thinking...


I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to be an Awesome, you know that as well as I do. Humans want higher rank and they want more power, it’s in our blood. Whether it’s got to do with the rank of someone in the military or rank in social society to yes, ranks in a Minecraft Classic Server. And just don’t go on about saying it shouldn't be about the ranks, we’ve heard it all before and it’s pointless. If you have to repete yourself then something’s wrong with what you’re saying. If you want to do that why call them RANKS in the first place and to access that information is by using the command /ranks.

I'm not angry, although you could say my jimmies are rustled, mainly because of this point. Want to know why builders feel angry, frustrated or rustled in situations like these? Because they're builders who see guests turn to awesome’s. Now that might allow gloating rights of saying "I remember back in the day when you couldn't even place water without help" but the newly appointed awesome get the last laugh in the end.

Now, this is all stuff you've heard before. Yes, they're higher rank and yes, they’re builders complaining about not being ranked on a server that is free to play and all you do is place blocks to look like something but hear me out, listen to what I have to say. I've finally figured out why builders complain, because I'm feeling it right now. I forgot who but someone I was a builder with got Engineer and I felt kinda left out, allow me to go into more detail.

Think of it like this, here is Person1. He's a pretty nice guy and people like talking to him. He's a new guest and people are socializing with him he thinks.

"Oh boy, these people are so nice! I can't wait to hang out with them more!"

Then after some hard work he gets cool, he finally has a colour to the game, some form of recognition, he's talking to more and more people, hears about builder chat.

"Oh boy, I wanna be a builder, time to build to get noticed!"

Then guess what, he builds! Big things! Things people like. And after some very hard work he gets builder, then things slow down. The next rank as people have said, it hard to obtain so they kind of just stop and look back, have fun finally, chatting it up with fellow builders, looking back at the guests in front of him. Then, Person2 joins the game, seems to be enjoying himself, having a blast. So Person1 goes over to him, talks to him and is nice to him. Person2 has a blast, sends in a cool rank thread and leaves for the night, Person1 hopes the best for 'em. Then after some sweat and tears Person2 finally gets cool, he goes around giving other guests lava and water and starts talking to everyone, gets to know people.

Person1 then tells him about builder chat, Person2 now seems like he wants to get builder, by trying to build bigger and better things. Finally they get builder rank. It’s a cycle. Now, Person1 and Person2 are Bro's. Builders, building together, having a blast. Then. Person2 Becomes Engineer and Person1 congratulates them... then they get Awesome rank... and Person1 feels left alone.

Because that's what all that's about, loneness. Nobody wants to be alone. Person1 wants to chat with Person2 but since they're almost invisible to them he can't tell if he's on or not. Person2 is always hiding so he hasn't a clue. Because that's the point of all of that, Builders feel left out. Simple as that. Builders feel almost separated from the higher ranks, the fact that Engie+ can see if higher ranks are hiding does not help and I remember from one of one of the promotion reasons what “Welcome to the Team!”

What? Builders aren’t in the team? They aren’t part of the more important community?

So... why bother writing all of this? What's the point you ask? Because it might be something wrong with me… or it might be something wrong with the system, but let me just say this now...

I'M NOT ASKING FOR A NEW RANK​

Simple as that, what I am asking is that Veteran Builders should become Engineers, People who have put massive amounts into the server and gotten to know loads of the people who’s also had the times of their life and shown some form of maturity.

Because through that we can then tell if they’re mature or not for a higher rank, so in most cases… Mature enough for the awesome rank. If you want builders to actually start building instead of them trying to be mini mods, constantly reporting grief and not building. You need the proving grounds to actually be engineer. So that will stop the older builders from complaining, to prove they can handle a higher rank.

Afraid some aren’t ready yet? Just see how they act. See how the think. If you think this builder has built enough for the server, allow them to be able to kick, it will be still… ultimately up to the red-names to see if they’re good enough like always. And if someone does make someone an engineer and they abuse that power or seem to be gloating with it. All they can do is kick, nothing ground shattering or server corrupting. Someone will complain and they’ll be demoted, simple as that.

I'll also like to add that people want to have fun, if people are getting angry in situations like there people aren't having fun. You can't just tell someone HAVE FUN. Because you can't force fun on people. Considering this IMO will bring the fun back for me, if other people suffer the same displeasure and I know they do. It will solve the problem of...

-Builders not building because they're trying to become engies
-Builders getting angry about ranks
-And bringing the fun back to classic for them.

So, that’s what I’ve been thinking, I’ve been articulating this post for a very long time now, it has been on my mind for quite some time now and it’s a relief that I finally got it down and that I finally posted it on the forums.

Wanna TL;DR? Here's one
No new rank, but have the proving grounds for higher ranks actually be engineer so veteran builders can prove themselves for a higher rank and thus, builders actually start building again without having to try and become mini mods and pester higher ranks into banning players for them and seem like they're trying to get a higher rank subtly.​
Click to expand...
I myself fully agree with this. The only reason i stop going on classic is because literally EVERY builder i used to hang out with is now engineer or has retired from the server. And now that they are engineer rank I can hardly even hang out with them.

On a different note, I do not think that the whole "Promote veteran builders to engineer and see how it goes" is very good.
I mean, like you said, they only have access to the kick command. But if someone is not ready for it and accidently blows it now, their chance greatly decreases if not fully decreases to obtain it in the future when they have developed the maturity for that rank. I am not sure if team9000 judges people for past actions when it comes to ranking people moderators, but I think that it would be best just to give the active players who actually are ready for the rank to be promoted.
 
Jns112 said:
I myself fully agree with this. The only reason i stop going on classic is because literally EVERY builder i used to hang out with is now engineer or has retired from the server. And now that they are engineer rank I can hardly even hang out with them.

On a different note, I do not think that the whole "Promote veteran builders to engineer and see how it goes" is very good.
I mean, like you said, they only have access to the kick command. But if someone is not ready for it and accidently blows it now, their chance greatly decreases if not fully decreases to obtain it in the future when they have developed the maturity for that rank. I am not sure if team9000 judges people for past actions when it comes to ranking people moderators, but I think that it would be best just to give the active players who actually are ready for the rank to be promoted.
Click to expand...
That's where one of my points come in, you look at their actions while as a builder, if they become mature enough to be considered a "Mature" or "Veteran" builder then yes, they should most defiantly be considered. If you see a builder going around treating guest like crap they're not going to be ranked, like the system we have now.
 
Beese said:
That's where one of my points come in, you look at their actions while as a builder, if they become mature enough to be considered a "Mature" or "Veteran" builder then yes, they should most defiantly be considered. If you see a builder going around treating guest like crap they're not going to be ranked, like the system we have now.
Click to expand...
True, I guess I could see how this is a good thing. If they do decide to do this, it would sure help balance out the Engi to Awesome baby boom going on.
 
Jns112 said:
True, I guess I could see how this is a good thing. If they do decide to do this, it would sure help balance out the Engi to Awesome baby boom going on.
Click to expand...
It's not just a baby boom. I've seen screenshots where the entire visible chat history was only Engineer+.
I sense a lack of guests in the force
 
You have to realize that Engineer is a moderation rank. There are litterally hundreds of builders. We can not promote them ALL to engineer. You also have to realize its not just about how many engineers we have, how long a person has been on, how mature they are, etc. All of that and more go into consideration for a promotion from builder to engineer. Many variables are considered for the equation, not just one. Also, we consider things most builders never think about i.e. When was the last time we saw said builder, how frequently do they get on, how can they handle themselves in certain situations, how do they interact with guests, how do they interact with higher ranked mods/admins, where else are they active, past incidents, etc. There is a lot that goes into a builder promotion to engineer. Some people take a while to reach it, others don't. If we feel someone is close, we will promote them and keep an eye on them. Sometimes we give them a little longer, and kind of push them in the right direction. There are some builders who we feel have the personality, but we don't see them frequently enough, or they just got bored and disheartened, in which we would not want to consider anyways, what does that say about the person when there are plenty of other builders that have been around just as long or longer who don't give up?

I guess my point is this, there are many reasons why we promote, and many reasons why we do NOT promote. Most reasons I listed, others I didn't. Some reasons a person has to come to realize on their own, one more quality we look for, although if they are close, we usually prod them in the right direction. Also, keep in mind ranks are a nice distinguishing factor, but their original purpose was simply to distinguish permissions to more trusted players, not to distinguish the older players from the newer ones.

Finally, and almost as important as the above reasons, think about the situation. The same problem with adding a new rank applies to this problem as well. Once we start promoting all these people to Engineer, the standards are raised, and eventually people will be asking why they aren't being promoted to awesome instead of engineer. Like you said beese, people want ranks, and the line has to be drawn somewhere. We can't have 600 engineers roaming around, people would start kicking other people because they wouldn't be paying attention, people would get mad, other engineers would be promoted, and the ones that weren't would question both themselves and the system, eventually the problem would be the same, as the problem is not the system AS MUCH as it is the people being passed up. I wish I could elaborate more, but I don't have the patience or time (mostly time, I have to go to work) to type out more. Feel free to voice any opinon you have, no comment is wrong (except the obvious :) )

It sucks, but there are too many problems in too many places, both with the system, promoters, promotees, and those "left behind"
 
Casey said:
You have to realize that Engineer is a moderation rank. There are litterally hundreds of builders. We can not promote them ALL to engineer. You also have to realize its not just about how many engineers we have, how long a person has been on, how mature they are, etc. All of that and more go into consideration for a promotion from builder to engineer. Many variables are considered for the equation, not just one. Also, we consider things most builders never think about i.e. When was the last time we saw said builder, how frequently do they get on, how can they handle themselves in certain situations, how do they interact with guests, how do they interact with higher ranked mods/admins, where else are they active, past incidents, etc. There is a lot that goes into a builder promotion to engineer. Some people take a while to reach it, others don't. If we feel someone is close, we will promote them and keep an eye on them. Sometimes we give them a little longer, and kind of push them in the right direction. There are some builders who we feel have the personality, but we don't see them frequently enough, or they just got bored and disheartened, in which we would not want to consider anyways, what does that say about the person when there are plenty of other builders that have been around just as long or longer who don't give up?

I guess my point is this, there are many reasons why we promote, and many reasons why we do NOT promote. Most reasons I listed, others I didn't. Some reasons a person has to come to realize on their own, one more quality we look for, although if they are close, we usually prod them in the right direction. Also, keep in mind ranks are a nice distinguishing factor, but their original purpose was simply to distinguish permissions to more trusted players, not to distinguish the older players from the newer ones.

Finally, and almost as important as the above reasons, think about the situation. The same problem with adding a new rank applies to this problem as well. Once we start promoting all these people to Engineer, the standards are raised, and eventually people will be asking why they aren't being promoted to awesome instead of engineer. Like you said beese, people want ranks, and the line has to be drawn somewhere. We can't have 600 engineers roaming around, people would start kicking other people because they wouldn't be paying attention, people would get mad, other engineers would be promoted, and the ones that weren't would question both themselves and the system, eventually the problem would be the same, as the problem is not the system AS MUCH as it is the people being passed up. I wish I could elaborate more, but I don't have the patience or time (mostly time, I have to go to work) to type out more. Feel free to voice any opinon you have, no comment is wrong (except the obvious :) )

It sucks, but there are too many problems in too many places, both with the system, promoters, promotees, and those "left behind"
Click to expand...
Of course, having 400 Engineers would be a bad situation, Anyone can see that. Although that's not exactly what I was saying. If that's what you read it was probably miscommunication of my behalf, what my point is that the line from Builder to Engineer shouldn't be removed and make everyone who's been on for a month engineer... but just ease it very slightly. Just enough to keep some people happy, some builders to stop complaining and to get builders back to building.

My aim is to stop builders trying to put on a show for anyone with a red name, I can see so many builders do this. Hell, I'm an honest guy. Even I've done that in more than one occasion. If you want builders to start building again you need to tell them that to get Engineer, you have to keep building. You say this... but not enough. Not enough to get it through their heads. My point still is ease up the requirement for engineer slightly, just slightly but still keep it high enough so it's still one of the hardest ranks to get... but not as hard as it was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top